[Asianunta]

But money from the U.S. Church is what supports the Patriarchate.

Just pray then that Turkey does not get into EU. Because with the rhythms the euro is going...

P.S There is a prophecy that Agia Sophia will be returned to Orthodoxy again. If there is a prophecy about Agia Sophia out of all the churches of the entire planet, it means something.

[biannaruh]

Hi,

I initiated the question of why the Constantinople still had a Patriarchate, only because I understood that the whole idea of a 'Patriarchate' was linked to the power and influence that a city had over others, and not as an attack against the Patriarch himself. When Constantinople was declared the new capitol of the Roman Empire (the New Rome), the city gained a new status and prestige, and then a Patriarchate. When Constantinople fell, the centre of the Orthodox world moved to Moscow, and so it too gained a new status, and so forth.

So the question is, does it work both ways? Does the status of a Patriarchate change when it loses power? If Constantinople has very few Christians, indeed, if it is not even in a Christian land anymore, should it still exercise the power it does? Moreover, from what I gather from this messageboard, should Constantinople still have this authority given that many Orthodox believe the Patriarch is exercising his power wrongly (ie: for ecumenism, etc)?

It is worth remembering that the Patriarchates of Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem are also in countries which, for centuries now, can hardly be considered majority Christian, let alone majority Orthodox. Yet, these patriarchates retain the same significance as they always have. The "power" of a Patriarchate is not temporal, but spiritual. Whenever a patriarchate assumes temporal power, that's when things go sour (as, sadly, the mediaeval papacy shows us ...)

[9rCR9hWL]

But money from the U.S. Church is what supports the Patriarchate. So there are a number of historical anomalies here.

Not to my understanding. The majority of financial support for the Patriarchate comes from Greece, not the US.

[AnimeThat]

It is worth remembering that the Patriarchates of Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem are also in countries which, for centuries now, can hardly be considered majority Christian, let alone majority Orthodox. Yet, these patriarchates retain the same significance as they always have. The "power" of a Patriarchate is not temporal, but spiritual. Whenever a patriarchate assumes temporal power, that's when things go sour (as, sadly, the mediaeval papacy shows us ...)

Olga, this is a good point - about the power being spiritual - which presupposes one's being in the Spirit. I do not what to inflame anybody and start a heated discussion on this, but it begs the question -
is the current Patriarch or the few ones before him, all the way down to Pat. Meletios (of sorry memory) in the Spirit?

Again, apologies if i have offended anybody, but I do believe that the title of oecumenical has been quite a bit too large for the most recent Partriarchs of Constantinople... if of course the title implies one's being a defender and upholder of Orthodoxy world-wide. If it does not, then what does it mean today - an empty sound?

Yura

[Charryith]

No offence to me, Yuri - we have to see things as they are.

[GrileVege]

Yesterday I found this in my mailbox and I like to share it with you, because it gives a brief overview about the troubles which occurred at the meeting in Ravenna:

http://orthodoxeurope.org/page/14/131.aspx#2

And in my opinion the EP has to be in Constantinople, not just for historic reasons but also because it is the cornerstone of Orthodoxy. And this has to be in it's place!

Christos voskrese! Nicolaj

[AnimeThat]

Yesterday I found this in my mailbox and I like to share it with you, because it gives a brief overview about the troubles which occurred at the meeting in Ravenna:

http://orthodoxeurope.org/page/14/131.aspx#2

And in my opinion the EP has to be in Constantinople, not just for historic reasons but also because it is the cornerstone of Orthodoxy. And this has to be in it's place!

Christos voskrese! Nicolaj

Nicolaj,

Thank you for the link. I find these developments, although there is nothing new in them if we look back at Florence in XV c and and Lyons in XIII c, very troubling and ultimately undermining the witness of Orthodoxy to the world. Lord have mercy on us.

Recently there has been a decision of the Church or Romania to establish three diocese on the canonical territory of Moscow (in Moldova and extending into Ukraine), which of course drew sharp critisim from the Patriarch and the Synod but also from Metropolitans and Synods of Moldova, Ukraine and Poland.

It is interesting that Romanian mass media (according to pravislavie.ru) made a connection between this unfriendly act towards the Russian Church and Bucharest's sucking up to Vatican. I do not know any more about this, but if somebody has additional info, it would be much appreciated.

In the Lord,
Yura

[GrileVege]

There has been a new Head of the Romanian Orthodox church be installed, but many decisions between his installation and his predecessor has been taken by some who are strongly afflicted by the RC and the EP.

And so sadly enough they put one's foot in one's mouth and things getting better this way as we see.

If anybody has more background or inside information, please post it!

Christos voskrese! Nicolaj

[immoceefe]

I would be somewhat surprised if Greece sources for the Ecumenical Patriarchate were greater than American sources. The Greek government may provide some funding, and the churches under its canonical jurisdiction in Greece may provide some institutional funding, but one must include the archons in the figures. There has been much discontent in recent years among wealthy Greek donors in the U.S. regarding the amount of funds going to the Patriarchate, and attempts to "grab" money that was donated for the purpose of that money being spent in the U.S. And one of the sources of discontent has been the lack of proper accounting. So it may not be possible to know exactly where the money comes from.

[9rCR9hWL]

Be prepared to be surprised, my friend. Greece not only heavily supports the EP, but also Jerusalem and Alexandria. In the US, at most one sees collections for the EP alone. Of course, notable archon donations are to be factored in, but still, the Greek state is major funding for the Ecumenical Patriarchate (often an issue between their two big political parties, I might add).