[Styparty]

Please see:
http://news.independent.co.uk/peopl e/pandora/article355783.ece

Prince Charles, usually portrayed as a nincompoop by the media, once again puts a lie to this caricature, while the director of the British Museum displays his secularist ignorance about the true nature of Orthodox ikons. An interesting read.

Best regards,

Mariusz Wesolowski

[obegeLype]

Yes- the non-Orthodox are allowed to visit Mt Athos. Of course though they have to be male.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Styparty]

As far as I know, the daily quota for visitors is 100 Orthodox and 10 non-Orthodox. The average stay is, I believe, three days, with a possibility of an extension. The website of the Friends of Mount Athos has all details.

Best regards,

Mariusz Wesolowski

[asypecresty]

FYI, Prince Charles' father was Greek Orthodox and both his grandparents were baptized Greek Orthodox. In fact, his grandmother, Princess Alice of Battenberg (aka, Princess Andrew), was a convert into Orthodoxy and became an Orthodox nun after her husband's death and was a big influence on Prince Charles during his early years. She founded the Christian Sisterhood of Martha and Mary, on the Greek island of Tinos, and her remains have been placed in the Convent of Saint Mary Magdalene in Gethsemane.


There are various speculations that the Prince is strongly interested in converting to Orthodoxy but hasn't yet because of the constitutional conditions of his title.

[Styparty]

Dear Antonios,

Thank you for this very interesting information. I had no idea about these Orthodox connections of the good prince but I am not really a fan of the British monarchy.

Best regards,

Mariusz

[Anydayhybeall]

Dear Irene,

The name Fyodor (Russian form of "Theodore") means "gift of God" but "Fyodorovna" means "daughter of Fyodor". A son of Fyodor is called "Fyodorovich".

Best regards,

Mariusz

[Assauraarguck]

Twice I meet Prince Charles. The first was at Vaptopedi on the Holy Mountian, in 2002. I did not approach him to engage in converastion, as he was actively enganged in converastion with many Cypriots; (They being both overmanly moastic in number), their Spritiual Father being Father Joseph, himself, an early disciple of Joseph the Hesysacht(+1959). Thus, on Athos a predominatly Cypriot refuge.

But, we did make eye-contact.

In 2003 I was living in primitive hermitage, (no water, or heat), in Shropshire - three steps, I was in Wales; three steps back, back in England's fair and green land.

As Prince of Wales, his residence was only a few kilometres away.

As there was two hermits, upon this stony ground, he came for a day. To my immense surprise, he said: 'We have meet'...(thinking of the multitudes he encounters in performance of his Royal duties), I was frankly taken-a-back. He had no body-quards, 'hidden' operatives - only he, and us hermits.

It was a wonderful visit, he marvelled at my 'bed' - a wooden plank on the floor.

Aidan, a local iconograher, had been comminised to fresco, his private chapel.

Indeed, many marvellous words were spoken by him. I wish I could honour the visit, with words, gestures, body-languable..., one day he may speak, or write of our mutual sharing...

[reachmanxx]

My problem is that their father was called Ludwig (Friedrich Wilhelm Ludwig Karl according to wikipedia). Not a Fyodor in sight. If they adopted a new patronymic on becoming Orthodox, this is some custom I don't know about. I guess it's not important, but I have often wondered .

[reiseebup]

My problem is that their father was called Ludwig (Friedrich Wilhelm Ludwig Karl according to wikipedia). Princess Alice's aunt was Grand Duchess Elisabeth Fyodorovna, sister of Empress Alexandra of Russia.

INXC, Matthew

[fectsnanteemy]

It was a custom of the Russian church to use "Fyodor" as a patronym in the case of converts whose fathers did not bear the names of Orthodox saints. It has been so long since this issue came up that I cannot provide a source for this statement, I simply do not remember. It's possible I learned this from my grandmother (+1981). But I'm sure that I've got it right.

In XC,
Alec Lowly

[Styparty]

Dear Matthew,

I wonder if you have received my personal email regarding the messages deleted from this thread. If so, I would appreciate your kind response.

Best regards,

Mariusz Wesolowski

[darieBarexish]

(I tried to send this message yesterday, but the Monachos site seemed to be down for some reason...)

Dear Anthony

Tsarina Alexandra was given the patronymic Fyodorovna on her conversion to Orthodoxy from the Lutheran faith. It seems that this particular patronymic, meaning daughter of Theodore (Fyodor), was frequently given to women who married into the Russian imperial family if they were converts to Orthodoxy. Tsar Nicholas II's mother Marie, the former Princess Dagmar of Denmark, was also given this patronymic, as were a number of other women who married into the family, so Fyodorovna seems to be a "generic" patronymic. Marie was one of Dagmar's middle names, so it seems she adopted this as a baptismal name on her conversion.

Neither Alexandra nor Marie's fathers were named Theodore; Alexandra's father was Ludwig, Grand Duke of Germany, Marie's father was Christian IX of Denmark. Russians, when naming their children, traditionally select a name which belongs to a saint recognised by the Orthodox church, so the names Ludwig and Christian would have fallen outside this requirement, hence I suspect these names were considered unsuitable to be used as a patronymic. (but why Theodore? That has me stumped...)

[Styparty]

Perhaps Alex's explanation, combined with the meaning of the name ("gift of God"), elucidate the reasons for its use in case of the converts, just like the name Abd'ullah ("slave of Allah") is used by converts to Islam. Another parallel can be found in the traditional French usage of the name "Dieudonne" ("God-given") for foundlings brought up in Catholic orphanages.

Best regards,

Mariusz Wesolowski

[reiseebup]

Dear Mariusz and others,

No, I've not received your e-mail; but the hard drive on our server gave up the spirit two days ago, and the whole site was off-line for around 10-15 hours while a new drive was installed and the site restored from a backup. Unfortunately, the backup was a day or so old, so a few posts made in the intervening time have not been restored. Apologies for the frustrations.

INXC, Matthew

[Fekliopas]

Dear Olga and Mariusz,

Thank you, I had wondered if something like that was the case (and had thought of the analogy with Abdullah). But I had never heard of this custom before. If it was a feature of the imperial family, then presumably it no longer applies?

[Edisesyethisp]

I received the missing messages on my email account, but because of a problem with my home computer I can only send messages direct from this site, so I guess that's why my message got through.

The book I was refering to is "Grand Duchess Elizabeth of Russia New Martyr of the Communist Yoke" by Lubov Millar, Nikodemos Orthodox Publication Society Redding California copyright (English Version) 1991

In Christ/..irene

[Anydayhybeall]

Dear Matthew,

Thank you kindly for your explanation regarding the lost messages. I am glad that it was simply a case of the server breakdown.

Coming back to Prince Charles - he is also the patron of a very interesting Traditionalist organization in England called the Temenos Academy (website at http://www.temenosacademy.org/). Philip Sherrard, the late founder of the review Temenos, was a member of the
Greek Orthodox Church (see http://www.onecountry.org/e142/e142 16as_Sacred_Trust_review.htm )

Best regards,

Mariusz Wesolowski

[T5qYkHWQ]

Dear Mina,

Your surprise at Prince Charles' positive assessment of the beauty of Islam may in part be explained by his interest in Traditionalism, which Mariusz refers to. Traditionalism is a school of thought which values all traditional religions as authentic spiritual paths. It has its origins in the thought of people like Rene Guenon, Fritjhof Schuon, Ananda Coomaraswamy, Martin Lings. Traditionalists tend to embrace one spiritual tradition and follow it through consistently, but do not doubt the validity of other traditions. They also espouse the idea that there exists a timeless wisdom known as the philosophia perrenis which lies at the heart of every traditional religion. It is worth noting perhaps that both Guenon and Schuon were Sufis, and Traditionalism seems to have correspondingly found many supporters in Islam. For an article, see here.

In Christ
Byron

[Assauraarguck]

Dear Byron,

Temenos, the late Sheik Schuon, his own role as the successor to Schuon, that being Martin Lings, are in the deepest prelest, namely pride. There has been a complete division within the Schuon sect. This is not to judge Prince Charles in his present position, yet if he becomes King, he will be the Head of the Church of England.

Already, he has asked that if he becomes King, his title is to be Head of Faith.

As for Philip Sherrard, in the last book I read (forgive me, the title of which is forgotten to me, yet published after his death) he clearly states, contrary to the belief of the Orthodox Church and the words of our Saviour, that Christianity can no longer claim to be the sole repository of Truth.

This is clearly herectical. Certainly your beloved Father Paisios of the Holy Mountain, (your veneration of whom is clearly correct), would himself deny such a position.

It does sadden me to see in your various posts, statements which are far too 'generous'.

Outside Jesus of Nazareth, Second Person of the Holy Trinity, is only DARKNESS.

The Schuon etc., school is a betrayal of Orthodox Christianity. One needs only to understand their position on the Logos (that is non-personal). They are in engaged in a very sticky intellectual pride.

Archmandrite Sophrony himself spoke with Schuon. Schuon considered Father Sophrony to be caught in the web of Orthodox teaching.

Jesus Christ is the ONLY Way, Truth and Life.

[T5qYkHWQ]

Dear Fr Seraphim,

Father, bless!

Thank you for your response to my post #320. It was not my specific intention to speak for or against Traditionalism, only to suggest to Mina (I'm sorry Mina, should that be Sr Mina? I didn't know you are a nun!) that this philosophical school may be what influences Prince Charles in positively assessing "the beauty of" Islam. From what little I know of Traditionalist ideas, traditional aesthetic standards of beauty feature highly in the philosophy, and surely Islamic architecture and design would therefore be much appreciated by this school (although, again without claiming any expert historical knowledge, I wonder to what extent Islamic art is itself derived from the Byzantine art which preceded it - the familiar Islamic chant, for example, certainly sounds suspiciously similar in terms of melody to our own Byzantine chant which preceded it historically).

Having said that, you are correct in spotting an overly "generous" tone in some of my posts. I have no doubt that Christianity is the sole repository of Truth, but alas for the time being I am still struggling to make this dogmatic assertion a reality for myself, in a world which is increasingly "pluralistic" in ways that are not always healthy (f.e. "Globalisation" seems to me to mean "(secular) Westernisation" most of the time). I can certainly see the possibility that NOT all "spiritual" paths lead to God, and I can at the same time profoundly respect and try to love with the little love I can muster our own Orthodox Christianity. I also trust that Jesus is more than plenty God for me, and do not want or feel tempted to place my trust in other divinities. What I am having difficulty doing, is saying that no holiness can exist outside the visible boundary of the Orthodox Church. I cannot bring myself to condemn all wise and good people from other religious traditions to darkness. I would rather believe that God moves in mysterious ways, that a person may be a follower of Jesus without realising it. Sometimes our cultural background prevents us from being Orthodox Christians - we may not even be aware of the Orthodox faith.

I have no trouble believing that Traditionalism in its "dogmatic" expression is prelest as you suggest. Yet I would be lying if I said I disagree with everything it has to say (f.e. I do think the modern world is mostly a rebellion against tradition, and I can see the beauty of art and myth in other religions). I do NOT think the Logos is non-personal. I'm interested to hear that Schuon knew Fr Sophrony. What on earth did he mean in saying Fr Sophrony was "caught in the web of Orthodox teaching"?

Generally therefore I would say regarding the Traditionalists, what I would say regarding other religions: take what is good and useful and not deluded, measure it against the Truth of Christ as the Church teaches it, and throw away the rest. This is where I am right now in my thinking, but I say so while acknowledging I may be sorely mistaken in this attitude. I do not speak from the perspective of a true Christian, but as a seeker still trying to understand, so please pray to God for me to forgive my error and show me a better way.

Glad to be hearing from you, Fr Seraphim. I hope you are well.

In Christ
Byron