[DoroKickcrofe]

were Nazis leftist? National-socialists, as they called themselves.

and i don't even know why sailaway (and some others here) are always hell-bent on muddying the label "progressive"...as if American progressives of present day have something in common with anyone that burns a minority.

[mr.nemo]

were Nazis leftist? National-socialists, as they called themselves.

and i don't even know why sailaway (and some others here) are always hell-bent on muddying the label "progressive"...as if American progressives of present day have something in common with anyone that burns a minority.

...or as if modern conservatives have anything to do with nationalists like this.

But what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[VemyhemiHef]

Again, they are, by your own source, a socialist group, making them "leftist" by definition. I wouldn't exactly call the BBC an unbiased source, considering it's based out of a highly socialistic country and largely represents and extremely socialist Europe. Perhaps you deserve some credit in that it's not entirely CNN's fault in characterizing a socialist group as "far-right" as they are likely relying on rather biased sources themselves. But your basis of characterization of a group as "right-wing" solely because they are nationalist, fails to analyze other components. Typically, parties are classified by economic theory moreso than stance on social issues. This basically goes to show how the media can and do manipulate the political spectrum to bad mouth whatever ideology they disfavor.

Dude, they define themselves as "national socialist".....you know what that is, right? I understand that not a social stance a party makes, but when you are dealing with fringe hate groups, it's mostly going to be cultural and social programs and light on the economics.

And, again from Wiki:
"Concerning economic aspects of the party's program, it includes vague and contradictory populist demands such as reducing national debt while increasing old age pensions and reducing the retirement age [17]. Some of the more concrete proposals include restrictions on foreign investment, including a total ban on purchases of real estate by foreign nationals[18] and nationalization of certain companies." That's pretty vague and could go either way.

The party also wants to restore the death penalty[20], criminalize "sexual deviation", including homosexuality [21], abolish registered partnership, reduce rights of the prosecuted [22] and in some cases create new crimes with a retroactive effect [23]. Some of the most controversial proposals include marking of ethnicity in ID cards [24] and giving the police discretion to treat the arrested person inhumanly [25]. These are not left-leaning positions.

In international affairs, the party opposes NATO and European Union and requires the Czech Republic leave these organizations [26]. The party is strongly anti-American and seems to be pro-Russian [27], going as far as stating that the Czech Republic must "immediately and strongly restore its relations with Russia" [28] Concerning other matters in international affairs, it is hard to determine the party position, since the party has not taken a stance and its releases in the party internet journal are very contradictory: e.g. the chairman of the party arbitration commission congratulated the radical president of the Islamic Republic of Iran after the controversial elections[29], but wrote a highly islamophobic article 6 weeks afterwards." Again, not left, but fairly vague

In the absence of any sort of real governing strategy if they ever were to get elected to any offices, all you have to judge them on are their social/cultural programs. If they are for criminalizing homosexuality, are down with burning Roma, want stronger ties with Russia (who, might I add, have their own far-Right issues), and abolish registered partnership you can take an educated stab at what they are.

I'm not sure why you are stuck in this left/Socialist stance on this issue, but your signature makes me think you are already predisposed to that line of thinking.

[VemyhemiHef]

were Nazis leftist? National-socialists, as they called themselves.

and i don't even know why sailaway (and some others here) are always hell-bent on muddying the label "progressive"...as if American progressives of present day have something in common with anyone that burns a minority.

No, the Nazi's were not a left-leaning party. They were a hodge-podge of ideologies, but it was mainly modeled off of Italian Fascism; the "socialist" in "National Socialist" was more to the point of a communal need to create a strong nation, to work together for the greater good. The Nazi's always were anti-Communists, anti-Liberal, and eventually even disagreed with Italian Fascism.

As to why people can't distinguish (even in the face of overwhelming evidence) between Communism, Socialism, Left, Progressive, Right, Fascist....I'll never know

[mr.nemo]

Dude, they define themselves as "national socialist".....you know what that is, right? I understand that not a social stance a party makes, but when you are dealing with fringe hate groups, it's mostly going to be cultural and social programs and light on the economics.

DUUUUDE, I am well aware that they are debatably right-wing on social issues. Again, however, economics typically trumps social issues. Here is a case of the media changing how they define left versus right in order to disparage the right. If the media would be at all consistent, they could label a party whatever they want - as long as they're consistent.

[mr.nemo]

No, the Nazi's were not a left-leaning party. They were a hodge-podge of ideologies, but it was mainly modeled off of Italian Fascism; the "socialist" in "National Socialist" was more to the point of a communal need to create a strong nation, to work together for the greater good. The Nazi's always were anti-Communists, anti-Liberal, and eventually even disagreed with Italian Fascism.

Being "anti-communist" does not necessarily mean one cannot be a leftist, however. Communism is an extreme and largely a failure as well.

[DoroKickcrofe]

No, the Nazi's were not a left-leaning party. They were a hodge-podge of ideologies, but it was mainly modeled off of Italian Fascism; the "socialist" in "National Socialist" was more to the point of a communal need to create a strong nation, to work together for the greater good. The Nazi's always were anti-Communists, anti-Liberal, and eventually even disagreed with Italian Fascism.

As to why people can't distinguish (even in the face of overwhelming evidence) between Communism, Socialism, Left, Progressive, Right, Fascist....I'll never know

exactly. but it seems Sailaway has some axe to grind against CNN...which, be that as it may i don't care for CNN either. but this thread was more about highlighting a human rights issue of a specific minority, not quibbling about political labels.

[VemyhemiHef]

exactly. but it seems Sailaway has some axe to grind against CNN...which, be that as it may i don't care for CNN either. but this thread was more about highlighting a human rights issue of a specific minority, not quibbling about political labels.

+1
And I apologize for my part in continuing this political squabble, but it drives me nuts when people can't (or won't) differentiate between groups, especially ones that pretty clearly take a stand on one side or the other. This is doubly annoying to me when it's in an area of the world that I study.

But yes, the atrocious treatment the Roma receive should be better known around the world, but somehow it flies under the radar. This poor little girl did no harm to anyone.

[mr.nemo]

exactly. but it seems Sailaway has some axe to grind against CNN...which, be that as it may i don't care for CNN either. but this thread was more about highlighting a human rights issue of a specific minority, not quibbling about political labels.

Yeah, they're badly biased. That's pretty serious given the business in which they are in.

Again, I agree that this shouldn't have happened to a little girl, and I have no sympathy for the scum that did this, regardless of ideology.

[gechaheritt]

gawd. does it matter to you that much to paint another country's party's with the same brush strokes as you paint American political system? With a multi-party system, there are going to be parties that not exactly correspond to the way things work in USA.

And the main point of the OP was, I believe, to highlight the suffering of minorities, especially the Roma people (whose origins, btw, are from northwest India close to where my family is from), in Eastern Europe.

Don't bother. You are talking to someone who thinks that fascism is a far left ideology. Normal rules don't apply to him.

[mr.nemo]

Don't bother. You are talking to someone who thinks that fascism is a far left ideology. Normal rules don't apply to him.

Strange to hear that from a douche who tells people a person didn't say something that they, in fact, did. You should really stick to strange noises and guilty pleasure movies.

[DoroKickcrofe]

France expelling illegal Roma folks now...

Sarkozy orders illegal Roma immigrants expelled - Yahoo! News

And the curious reason is to maintain law and order, because some Roma/Gypsy youth rioted or fought with police (after one of the young Roma was gunned down by the cops). I guess the Roma are easier target to single out compared to the Muslims who riot in France often enough...

[byncnombmub]

However, if I have offended any member of the Workers Party, or any Nazis, or any far right wing party let them say so here on PS.com. I truly doubt I have offended any Nazi, or member of the Worker's Party in the Czech Rep., or any far right wing political organization or member of any such organization.

Not my fight, but I would guess the objection is to labeling Nazis "far right." Worker's parties and Nazis can't be identified with the right the way we mean it in America. Fiscally, they are far left.

[Flerdourdyged]

Not my fight, but I would guess the objection is to labeling Nazis "far right." Worker's parties and Nazis can't be identified with the right the way we mean it in America. Fiscally, they are far left.

OMG, this is such a petty little world.

Communists = Far Left
Nazis = Far Right

Please see the chart:
C=Communists
D=Democrats
R=Republicans
N=Nazis


____________________________________________
C~~~~~~~~~~~~~~D~R~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~N

(I made the chart "red" this is not to equate Communists with "red" states which are Republican which is not to equate them with Nazis.)

This would be the American political chart. Your chart may vary, you may wish to make small points and poke fun at various parties by showing them closer together, so be it. But overall, year in year out, based on most people's understanding of American history and politics, etc. this is a general representation of politics in the US, left, right and center. (I should point out that the political terms "Left" and "Right" are not American but French so they really don't have a traditional American meaning at all. In fact in the House and the Senate the Dems sit on the right and GOP on the left. So actually the Republicans are "Left" and the Dems "Right" at least in the American sense. Which doesn't create any linkage between Democrats and the Nazis except for individuals practicing "Guilt by Association".)

Oy vey!

The Nazis were fiscally far left... Well, I am sure an argument can be made and a graduate thesis will be born.

In Germany from the 1920-1945 the National SOCIALIST WORKERS Party was the Nazi Party, they were the same party. The Worker's Party of the Czech Rep. is the child of the German Nazi Party aka the National SOCIALIST WORKERS Party.

A Worker's Party can be nationalist and socialist and far right and wear brown uniforms and give the fascist salute and displace swastikas and pictures of Adolf Hitler. While there are Worker's parties of the far left they are not part of this discussion except in the case of mistaken identity.

[byncnombmub]

OMG, this is such a petty little world.

Communists = Far Left
Nazis = Far Right

Um, no. Repeating it again and again doesn't make it true. That's all.

[Flerdourdyged]

Um, no. Repeating it again and again doesn't make it true. That's all.

Nazis are not far right? Basically, they would share many of the beliefs of the Democrats and Republicans in the USA, except they go fuuuuuuurther to the riiiiiiiiiiiight.

If this is not true please explain, I'm open to an actual thesis to be presented to the contrary. Please state your case.

[byncnombmub]

Nazis are not far right? Basically, they would share many of the beliefs of the Democrats and Republicans in the USA, except they go fuuuuuuurther to the riiiiiiiiiiiight.

If this is not true please explain, I'm open to an actual thesis to be presented to the contrary. Please state your case.

The original Nazi regime interfered tremendously in all forms of commerce for the good of the state. Most present-day Nazi groups express their xenophobia through support of protectionist economic policies. They don't support free trade, they are not laissez-faire economically. That's characteristic of American left politics, not American right. American left = social freedoms but not economic. American right = economic freedoms but not social. Nazism = neither; it doesn't line up.

[Jxmwzgpv]

Quick, everyone try and put Hitler on the "other team's" side.

Not saying that's anyone ITT, it just seems to happen alllll the time.

[Jxmwzgpv]

My 0.02: Nazi Germany was, for all intents and purposes, a fascist dictatorship and really flew in the face of any genuine concept of "left" or "right". It was a unique situation that hopefully will never be repeated, the end.

[xanonlinexan]

My 0.02: Nazi Germany was, for all intents and purposes, a fascist dictatorship and really flew in the face of any genuine concept of "left" or "right". It was a unique situation that hopefully will never be repeated, the end.

Nazi's were left wing. Show me a right wing govt that centralizes it's entire govt.