[sttrqiss]

what does that has to do with anything?

If the goal (of France in this case) is to create a uniform society with all on equal footing at all times, and you chose to move there, you also chose to be part of the uniform society.

[orillaVar]

That IS gender inequality -- the idea that the only way to level the playing field is to hide every aspect of a person -- specifically to deny the natural truth that humans are sexual beings -- is perpetuating the idea that men & women are not equals.

That is your upbringing, beliefs, culture hoisted upon another. I personally wouldn't want to wear a wig & clothing that covered me in accordance to Jewish modesty laws... for me that would personally feel oppressive, but I do not pity or feel sorry for Jewish women who decide to follow their faith & culture that way.

And you want to see an oppressive clothing requirement put upon men of a religion? Take a good look at an Orthodox man in the summer time. I am really surprised we don't hear about them passing out all over the place!

To be French now means to live in a homogeneous, fraternal society, where the small differences in personal beliefs that divide us are tossed away, and all are on equal footing at all times? Doesn't sound so bad!

Doesn't sound so bad until it is that little personal belief that is close to your heart that is demonized and tossed away.

[mikefertynnz]

You cannot wear the niqab and expect to be a police officer.

Now on the OTHER hand... niqabs are useful for undercover cops in West Philadelphia... See? Give and take here.


Personally I think the niqab is probably among the annals of "stupidest culture mores" I can think of.

American Women during the Gilded Age and before adopted a fashion where showing ANYTHING above the ankle was in extremely bad taste. Big huge unwieldy European gowns got bigger and bigger and corsets tighter and tighter. And those dresses came all the way up the underside of your neck.

It was kind of like the Western version of a niqab.



Heavy clothing makes for interesting dating. If you got no real clue of what your partner looks like, other than the face---and back in the day sex before marriage was a very bad thing; imagine how many husbands and wives wanted a divorce right on the day of their honeymoon.

[sttrqiss]

That is your upbringing, beliefs, culture hoisted upon another.

Right, France is foisting its beliefs on those who wish to live there. Wrong, acting as tho all men are sex fiends that think all women are sex objects is indeed gender inequality.

Doesn't sound so bad until it is that little personal belief that is close to your heart that is demonized and tossed away.

But why should a society bend to MY little personal belief? I live in a society, and should the society's rules oversee mine, I either move or conform.

Think back to civil rights: many many people believed, close to their heart, that dark skin was not equal to light skin. Society as a whole said this belief will no longer be tolerated.

[cliceperperIa]

That IS gender inequality -- the idea that the only way to level the playing field is to hide every aspect of a person -- specifically to deny the natural truth that humans are sexual beings -- is perpetuating the idea that men & women are not equals.

What about a law banning people from covering up their naturally sexy bodies with orange-colored spray-on tans?

[orillaVar]

But why should a society bend to MY little personal belief? I live in a society, and should the society's rules oversee mine, I either move or conform.

Think back to civil rights: many many people believed, close to their heart, that dark skin was not equal to light skin. Society as a whole said this belief will no longer be tolerated.

The Islamic religion is hardly a "little personal belief"!!!! That is an incredibly insulting comparison. How exactly does personally practicing ones religion and wearing modesty clothing make any society "bend"??? What about those Orthodox Jews in NY??? They have a lot of "little personal beliefs" that fly inthe face of a lot of the society in which they reside, should they be forced to toss away all their traditions or beliefs that a lot of Americans would view as odd or oppressive???

[sttrqiss]

I was quoting YOU

Doesn't sound so bad until it is that little personal belief that is close to your heart that is demonized and tossed away.

.

[orillaVar]

I was quoting YOU

And I was responding to your statement:

To be French now means to live in a homogeneous, fraternal society, where the small differences in personal beliefs that divide us are tossed away, and all are on equal footing at all times? Doesn't sound so bad!

I was not referring to Islam as "little personal belief". Personal belief is different than a religion that millions of people follow. My reply was in the context of your statement. Applying my comment to Islam is taking it completely out of context.

[sttrqiss]

I think what France is doing away with is the visible signs of ones' beliefs... like crosses, face veils, etc. The small differences that divide are the the visual aspects, right?

I didn't refer to any religion as a "little personal belief" either.

[sttrqiss]

What about a law banning people from covering up their naturally sexy bodies with orange-colored spray-on tans?

Tan fat is sexier than white fat!

[orillaVar]

My final statement on the subject is this, history has shown us what happens when a government begins to take away the rights of individuals or groups from practicing their religion or they cultural traditions for the "good of the majority" or to create a more "homogeneous" society. Although it appears to be an easy thing for a government to do when the group is small or not popular, it is not something that should be tolerated in any way. It is a very slippery slope.

[gechaheritt]

Heavy clothing makes for interesting dating. If you got no real clue of what your partner looks like, other than the face---and back in the day sex before marriage was a very bad thing; imagine how many husbands and wives wanted a divorce right on the day of their honeymoon.

Plastic surgery is similar. You marry a hot babe thinking that she'll have cute kids and....whoops!

[Peertantyb]

What about a law banning people from covering up their naturally sexy bodies with orange-colored spray-on tans?

and thus perpetuating the myth that being tan is "sexier".

[GfBTWMmV]

My final statement on the subject is this, history has shown us what happens when a government begins to take away the rights of individuals or groups from practicing their religion or they cultural traditions for the "good of the majority" or to create a more "homogeneous" society. Although it appears to be an easy thing for a government to do when the group is small or not popular, it is not something that should be tolerated in any way. It is a very slippery slope.

See, also, http://fairlyoddparents.wikia.com/wiki/The_Same_Game

[joOEMcheapSOFTWARE]

To be French now means to live in a homogeneous, fraternal society, where the small differences in personal beliefs that divide us are tossed away, and all are on equal footing at all times? Doesn't sound so bad!

As long as you agree with the norms it's all good. What if the rule was, like in some ME countries, that you HAVE to wear it all the time. After all, they are just trying to create a homgeneous society, doesn't sound so bad!

[joOEMcheapSOFTWARE]

New immigrants to a nation need to conform to that nation's laws, not the other way around. If they don't like it, they can go back to where they came from.

What about those who were born there. Where should they go back to if they don't like it?

[joOEMcheapSOFTWARE]

I find this a lot less outrageous than the countries for which the burka is mandatory.

I find it equal.

[cabonuserollyo]

I'm not sure about all this. If I went to an estimate and the person was wearing a face mask, I would not feel comfortable. You can call it what you want, hijab, burka, face mask, I would walk away and not deal with the person.

Think of this the other way. What if all the women on this blog were required to wear a face mask?

[cabonuserollyo]

What about those who were born there. Where should they go back to if they don't like it?

Where ever they like? Some place that incorporates their beliefs?

I moved to Venezuela as a kid with my family. I learned the language and the customs and tried to fit in. It's that way in most countries, you chose to move there or you were born there, in which case be part of the country you were born in or move out.

You do have a choice.

[sttrqiss]

What if all the women on this blog were required to wear a face mask?