[enlinnyGoob]

PolitiFact | Sorting out the truth about guns in Mexico

[lrtoinbert]

The Mexican violence simply affirms that gun control laws don't work - if anything, they lead to more violence. Mexico's almost-total prohibition only applies to the otherwise law-abiding.

But, for the record, only an idiot would believe that even a substantial number of weapons come from the U.S., particularly machine guns, grenades, etc., which are virtually prohibited here.

Some interesting reading on where fully-automatic weapons may come from. Gotta wonder how many COSCOs went undetected.

[Ervins Dervish]

I don't really care where they get the guns anymore. The real problem is the overarching failure of the "war on drugs".

These cartels are now almost as powerful as the government. It's time for Mexico, and the US-to at least consider a legalization program.

[wllsqyuipknczx]

The Mexican violence simply affirms that gun control laws don't work - if anything, they lead to more violence. Mexico's almost-total prohibition only applies to the otherwise law-abiding.

But, for the record, only an idiot would believe that even a substantial number of weapons come from the U.S., particularly machine guns, grenades, etc., which are virtually prohibited here.

Some interesting reading on where fully-automatic weapons may come from. Gotta wonder how many COSCOs went undetected.

Lead to more violence? Can you please provide me with a link to a study that says anything like that? I'm not trying to be difficult, but I just find it hard to believe with other examples such as Ireland and the UK for instance...

[Ervins Dervish]

The Mexican violence simply affirms that gun control laws don't work - if anything, they lead to more violence. Mexico's almost-total prohibition only applies to the otherwise law-abiding.

I doesn't matter.

These cartels have automatic weapons/machine guns, grenades, RPGs, armored vehicles etc. I don't think a citizen with a handgun or even an assault weapon would be able to compete with that. If the Mexican military can't control them-what makes you think even a well armed citizen could?

You've seen too many Rambo movies. It doesn't work like that in real life.

[lrtoinbert]

Lead to more violence? Can you please provide me with a link to a study that says anything like that? I'm not trying to be difficult, but I just find it hard to believe with other examples such as Ireland and the UK for instance...

Well, the country in question is evidence in itself, as are Chicago and D.C. when it had it's total gun ban. But here are a few studies for starters:

There are 2.5 million Defensive Gun Uses annually in the U.S.

States with concealed carry laws have substantially lower violence crime.

Britain's leads the world in violent crime.

[lrtoinbert]

I doesn't matter.

These cartels have automatic weapons/machine guns, grenades, RPGs, armored vehicles etc. I don't think a citizen with a handgun or even an assault weapon would be able to compete with that. If the Mexican military can't control them-what makes you think even a well armed citizen could?

You've seen too many Rambo movies. It doesn't work like that in real life.

As usual, you don't know what you are talking about.

Let's put it this way: What Mexico is doing now obviously isn't working. You may as well give civilians some chance rather than none at all. Q.E.D.

[duribass]

The Mexican violence simply affirms that gun control laws don't work - if anything, they lead to more violence.

I blame the food. It riles up the bowels. Also, the place is full of Mexicans.

[lrtoinbert]

Mmmm, but authentic Oaxacan Tacos are so yummy!

[Zwnkkvle]

I don't really care where they get the guns anymore. The real problem is the overarching failure of the "war on drugs".

These cartels are now almost as powerful as the government. It's time for Mexico, and the US-to at least consider a legalization program.

The problem is that mexico is a failed country infested with a deficent culture. So long as it's okay to cheat, steal, murder, and bribe, the country will fail to provide any structure, law, order, and basic services for its citizens.

How do you suggest conducting a legalization program?

[wllsqyuipknczx]

Well, the country in question is evidence in itself, as are Chicago and D.C. when it had it's total gun ban. But here are a few studies for starters:

There are 2.5 million Defensive Gun Uses annually in the U.S.

States with concealed carry laws have substantially lower violence crime.

Britain's leads the world in violent crime.

I was more speaking about other countries with restrictive gun laws.

Do you think that the United States is unlike those other countries culturally speaking?

Why do their gun laws work? Do you think it's because there has never been legal guns in those countries?

[duribass]

The problem is that mexico is a failed country infested with a deficent culture.

How is their culture deficient? Please to how you say elaborate.

[wllsqyuipknczx]

How is their culture deficient? Please to how you say elaborate.

It shows he has a fundamental misunderstanding of what drives criminal behavior.

[duribass]

It shows he has a fundamental misunderstanding of what drives criminal behavior.

It also suggests he's never been to Mexico. Or something besides a border town.

[Ervins Dervish]

The problem is that mexico is a failed country infested with a deficent culture. So long as it's okay to cheat, steal, murder, and bribe, the country will fail to provide any structure, law, order, and basic services for its citizens.

How do you suggest conducting a legalization program?

I guess you pass a law and try your best to implement and enforce it. I agree it's a tall order. But certainly the source of these cartels is the money derived from the drug trade. Cut that funding off.

I'm not sure what a "deficient culture" means-how do you quantify something like culture? Sounds awfully elitist to me.

Regarding a "failed country"-I'm not sure Mexico fits that description-but there are big problems to be sure.

[Ervins Dervish]

as usual, you don't know what you are talking about.

{fart}

[enlinnyGoob]

This is three years old but still relevant:

US guns arm Mexico's drug wars / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com

[enlinnyGoob]

This article is 9 years old but still relevant:

U.S. Guns Smuggled Into Mexico Aid Drug War


U.S. Guns Smuggled Into Mexico Aid Drug War

At the crime lab, run by the firearms bureau, an agent had sifted through thousands of pending gun trace requests filed by Mexico. She saw that the guns were part of a pattern: 5 identical rifles, with consecutive serial numbers, had turned up after a 1996 shootout where Arellano Félix enforcers killed two Mexican soldiers; 15 more had been seized after another battle with the gang.

The agent called the two federally licensed firearms dealers in the United States to whom the guns could be traced on paper. The first was Loretta Welch, who ran a weapons shop just outside San Diego called the Shooter's Emporium. The second was a man who ran a small mom-and-pop gun shop in Nevada. Ms. Welch faxed paperwork to the firearms agent showing that she had sold the 80 assault weapons to the Nevada dealer. He adamantly denied it.

"I now have one gun dealer who's lying to me," the firearms agent said in an interview. "I thought it was a huge problem."

Search warrants and interviews revealed that Ms. Welch's paperwork was phony. She had sold 80 of the Chinese assault rifles, along with 14 used handguns, to a Tijuana weapons dealer she met at a California gun show in 1995.

So far, 21 deaths have resulted from that $27,000 transaction. Ms. Welch faces a maximum prison term of four years at her May 29 sentencing.

[lrtoinbert]

I was more speaking about other countries with restrictive gun laws.

Do you think that the United States is unlike those other countries culturally speaking?

Why do their gun laws work? Do you think it's because there has never been legal guns in those countries?

Probably. Switzerland mandates gun ownership - and, until very recently, fully-automatic weapons - and is the safest industrialized country.

There WERE legal guns in many of these countries, but gun restrictions - ranging from virtually nothing to very strict - started earlier in most. In fact, prior to the 1996 U.K. gun ban, many guns banned by our 10-year ban on so-called "assault weapons" were legal there i.e. the law did not distinguish between a semi-auto 9mm Uzi pistol and a common 9mm pistol.

However, the evidence suggest the gun laws in other countries may NOT be working, hence Britain's unenviable lead in violent crime.

[lrtoinbert]

This is three years old but still relevant:

US guns arm Mexico's drug wars / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com

That story is even better - it shows both the failure of Mexico's gun laws and ours!

It is illegal to sell armor-piercing handgun ammunition, at least in the U.S. And the machine guns and grenades are essentially totally illegal here. Most guns are illegal in Mexico.