[spacecrafty]

And God bless our President for taking the fight to the Taliban in Afghanistan and for forging greater co-operation with Pakistani authorities.

I am so glad to have a president who felt the need to actually focus our fight against terrorism to our real enemies in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

BREAKING NEWS
That being pointed out, this is a very good sign in that ISI seems to be moving towards civilization and away from the taliban.

[spacecrafty]

(SNIP)Though the Obama administration has been divided on whether and how to deal with the Taliban, the Pakistani move could come at the expense of the Afghan government of Hamid Karzai and complicate reconciliation efforts his government has begun.

An American intelligence official in Europe conceded as much, while also acknowledging Mullah Baradar’s key role in the reconciliation process. “I know that our people had been in touch with people around him and were negotiating with him,” the official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the issue.

“So it doesn’t make sense why we bite the hand that is feeding us,” the official added. “And now the Taliban will have no reason to negotiate with us; they will not believe anything we will offer or say.”

(SNIP)But the former Taliban ambassador to Pakistan, Mullah Abdul Salam Zaeef, who has led efforts on behalf of President Karzai to persuade the Taliban to negotiate an end to the war, attacked Pakistan’s action as destroying all chances of reconciliation with the rest of the Taliban leadership.

“If it’s really true, it could seriously affect negotiations and can gravely affect the peace process,” he said, speaking in Kabul, where he has resided since his release from the prison at Guantánamo Bay in Cuba several years ago. “It would destroy the fragile trust built between both sides and will not help with the peace process.”

Taliban Arrest May Be Crucial for Pakistanis - NYTimes.com

I have to point out that this was from the NY Times, not exactly the most dependable source, but I wonder if there's more to this than originally met the eye.

[Roorseprate]

In Blow to Taliban, 2 More Senior Leaders Are Arrested - NYTimes.com

[spacecrafty]

Baradar's arrest already yielding dividends

From the article, and not even that far into the article...

A senior U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said that the arrest of the two shadow governors {w}as unrelated to Mullah Baradar's capture.

That being said, the only negotiations we should be doing with the taliban is their unconditional surrender.

[lapyignipinge]

The drive to cripple Al Qaeda and the Taliban continues with success on both sides of the Pakistan/Afghan border. To this day I still cannot figure out what the hell Bush was thinking when he let the actual perpetrators of 9/11 get away. If OBL and Omar are still in Pakistan we still have a chance to bring them to justice. After 9/11 the world was with us and this could might have been settled 9 years ago if Bush had not dropped the ball.

[spacecrafty]

The drive to cripple Al Qaeda and the Taliban continues with success on both sides of the Pakistan/Afghan border. To this day I still cannot figure out what the hell Bush was thinking when he let the actual perpetrators of 9/11 get away. If OBL and Omar are still in Pakistan we still have a chance to bring them to justice. After 9/11 the world was with us and this could might have been settled 9 years ago if Bush had not dropped the ball.

Okay, Mullah Omar didn't perpetrate 9/11, he gave shelter to OBL, etc. OBL, is dead.

Do you really think it would make any difference to the security of the United States if a caveman who was the strongest war-lord in the world's most backwards country was in our custody?

This is an ideology we're fighting and so long as we can keep disrupting their networks and destroying leadership of the affiliates, it makes another attack far less likely.

al-Zarcawi and KSM were much bigger "gets" than Mullah Omar, al-Zawahiri, or Abu Yayoub al-Iraqi (or whomever is the figurehead of AQ today).

[Roorseprate]

The drive to cripple Al Qaeda and the Taliban continues with success on both sides of the Pakistan/Afghan border. To this day I still cannot figure out what the hell Bush was thinking when he let the actual perpetrators of 9/11 get away. If OBL and Omar are still in Pakistan we still have a chance to bring them to justice. After 9/11 the world was with us and this could might have been settled 9 years ago if Bush had not dropped the ball.

My theory?-he was saving the vast majority of the US military for the Iraq invasion to get daddy's nemesis.

Just ask Richard Clarke-a non-partisan-he was stunned that the focus after 9/11 was on Iraq rather than Afghanistan. And he was THERE.

[lapyignipinge]

Okay, Mullah Omar didn't perpetrate 9/11, he gave shelter to OBL, etc. OBL, is dead.

Do you really think it would make any difference to the security of the United States if a caveman who was the strongest war-lord in the world's most backwards country was in our custody?

This is an ideology we're fighting and so long as we can keep disrupting their networks and destroying leadership of the affiliates, it makes another attack far less likely.

al-Zarcawi and KSM were much bigger "gets" than Mullah Omar, al-Zawahiri, or Abu Yayoub al-Iraqi (or whomever is the figurehead of AQ today).

Prove that OBL is dead !! Bush never claimed that he had died. al-Zawahiri would also be a major plus if he were to be captured or killed.

[Roorseprate]

Okay, Mullah Omar didn't perpetrate 9/11, he gave shelter to OBL, etc. OBL, is dead.

Do you really think it would make any difference to the security of the United States if a caveman who was the strongest war-lord in the world's most backwards country was in our custody?

This is an ideology we're fighting and so long as we can keep disrupting their networks and destroying leadership of the affiliates, it makes another attack far less likely.

al-Zarcawi and KSM were much bigger "gets" than Mullah Omar, al-Zawahiri, or Abu Yayoub al-Iraqi (or whomever is the figurehead of AQ today).

Oh lord you have got to be kidding.

So you've seen Bin Laden's body eh?

Sure why wouldn't we want the guy who provided the training, ideology, funding and leadership for 9/11?

This is what I admit makes me see red. Bush's failure to get OBL is utterly forgiven by the right since he has an R next to his name. If it were Al Gore-you would be HOWLING.

[spacecrafty]

Prove that OBL is dead !! Bush never claimed that he had died.

As if Bush claiming he'd died would convince you.

Why would the CIA disassemble Alec Station if they didn't come to the conclusion that it was wasting resources chasing a ghost?

Why wouldn't Obama REassemble something equivelent to Alec Station if he didn't think OBL was dead?

For that matter, why do you think that capturing or killing OBL went from Obama's "biggest national security priority" (Oct. 7, 2008) to "I think that we have to so weaken [bin Laden's] infrastructure that, whether he is technically alive or not, he is so pinned down that he cannot function" (Jan. 14, 2009)? Maybe he learned something during the transition?

Why do you suppose OBL hasn't made a video tape of him speaking about contemporaneous events since the 2004 video (which was widely questioned).

There are believable accounts of OBL being gravely injured in Tora Bora and we've had 8 years of Predator strikes of al Q and Taliban camps, of which we don't regularly recover bodies for DNA analysis.

But you draw the conclusion he's still alive based solely on the fact that we haven't found a body (I can see you're totally unfamiliar with the topography of the region and the operational priorities of our units).

So, maybe he is still alive, living on a deserted Island with Amelia Earhart.

[lapyignipinge]

As if Bush claiming he'd died would convince you.

Why would the CIA disassemble Alec Station if they didn't come to the conclusion that it was wasting resources chasing a ghost?

Why wouldn't Obama REassemble something equivelent to Alec Station if he didn't think OBL was dead?

For that matter, why do you think that capturing or killing OBL went from Obama's "biggest national security priority" (Oct. 7, 2008) to "I think that we have to so weaken [bin Laden's] infrastructure that, whether he is technically alive or not, he is so pinned down that he cannot function" (Jan. 14, 2009)? Maybe he learned something during the transition?

Why do you suppose OBL hasn't made a video tape of him speaking about contemporaneous events since the 2004 video (which was widely questioned).

There are believable accounts of OBL being gravely injured in Tora Bora and we've had 8 years of Predator strikes of al Q and Taliban camps, of which we don't regularly recover bodies for DNA analysis.

But you draw the conclusion he's still alive based solely on the fact that we haven't found a body (I can see you're totally unfamiliar with the topography of the region and the operational priorities of our units).

So, maybe he is still alive, living on a deserted Island with Amelia Earhart.

Show me the death certificate. Show me DNA scrapped off a cave floor. Show me some confirmation, lack of evidence is not evidence. Bush gave up because OBL is the brother of his business partner. Here's that quote from Bush that shows he just gave up.

[spacecrafty]

Sure why wouldn't we want the guy who provided the training, ideology, funding and leadership for 9/11?

What is your aversion to reading exactly?

OBL didn't provide the training. He didn't have any military training of his own. That video where he's firing the Kalishnikov should make that perfectly clear.

He provided the ideology? That'll sure come as news to Saayed Qutb.

Please, read a book or two before trying to correct someone who has.

[spacecrafty]

Show me the death certificate. Show me DNA scrapped off a cave floor.[/IMG]

So we should put our soldiers in harm's way to collect forensic samples? You don't seem to have any regard at all for our brave fighting men and women.

That being pointed out, show me some logical consistency and assert that Amelia Earhart is still alive.

[lapyignipinge]

So we should put our soldiers in harm's way to collect forensic samples? You don't seem to have any regard at all for our brave fighting men and women.

That being pointed out, show me some logical consistency and assert that Amelia Earhart is still alive.

Still no proof, no witnesses, no DNA, no intel, again lack of proof is not proof. You are just speculating and try to throw smoke and mirrors out when you have no PROOF.

FWIW if Amelia was alive she would be closing in on 113 years old. It makes her being alive improbable but possible.

[Roorseprate]

What is your aversion to reading exactly?

OBL didn't provide the training. He didn't have any military training of his own. That video where he's firing the Kalishnikov should make that perfectly clear.

He provided the ideology? That'll sure come as news to Saayed Qutb.

Please, read a book or two before trying to correct someone who has.

Bin Laden didn't provide the ideology for 9/11? Are you smoking crack?
Here's some required reading for you Mr. Revisionist history:

Osama Bin Laden - Fatwa- Background and Declaration of War against the Americans Ocupying the two Holy Places
Osama Bin Laden Fatwa - 1998

Need some help? The links have the text of Bin Laden's 1996 and 1998 fatwas against the US-that's a religious edict urging jihad against the US. Need more help? It's a declaration of war against the United States. Nice try.

Oh-Bin Laden didn't provide the training eh?

Try this:

September 11 attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Excerpts:
"In late 1998 or early 1999, bin Laden gave approval for Mohammed to go forward with organizing the plot. A series of meetings occurred in spring of 1999, involving Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Osama bin Laden, and his deputy Mohammed Atef. Mohammed provided operational support for the plot, including target selections and helping arrange travel for the hijackers.[94] Bin Laden overruled Mohammed, rejecting some potential targets such as the U.S. Bank Tower in Los Angeles because "there was not enough time to prepare for such an operation".

Bin Laden provided leadership for the plot, along with financial support, and was involved in selecting participants for the plot. Bin Laden initially selected Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdhar, both experienced jihadists who fought in Bosnia. Hazmi and Mihdhar arrived in the United States in mid-January 2000, after traveling to Malaysia to attend the Kuala Lumpur al-Qaeda Summit. In spring 2000, Hazmi and Mihdhar took flying lessons in San Diego, California, but both spoke little English, did not do well with flying lessons, and eventually served as "muscle" hijackers."

Not convinced? Try this:

The laughing 9/11 bombers - Times Online

Need help? it's Mohammed Atta's martydom video filmed in a Bin Laden training camp in Afghanistan:

"FILM of the ringleader of the September 11 hijackers reading his “martyrdom” will inside Afghanistan at Osama Bin Laden’s headquarters has emerged five years after the Al-Qaeda outrage.
It is the first time that a videotape has appeared of Mohammed Atta — who flew an American Airlines plane into the north tower of the World Trade Center — at a training camp in Afghanistan. It fills in a significant gap in the timing of the build-up to the attacks on the United States."

Do you have any response to this? Or like George Bush-do you not "think about him anymore"?

Read a book or two? You need to start with the 9-11 Commission Report. I read it. Did you?
What an effing disgrace.

[spacecrafty]

Still no proof, no witnesses, no DNA, no intel, again lack of proof is not proof. You are just speculating and try to throw smoke and mirrors out when you have no PROOF.

FWIW if Amelia was alive she would be closing in on 113 years old. It makes her being alive improbable but possible.

You truly are a testament to liberal "thought".

Unable to weigh the merits of any argument, possition or evidence on your own, just desperately clinging to the last thing you were told.

If you don't understand why there would be lack of witnesses, DNA, death certificate, or body, then you've just demonstrated such breath-taking ignorance of the conditions our troops are operating under, then you should truly hang your head in shame.

If the fact that the intel unit responsible for his capture was disbanded, and not reformed under a new administration that said its top priority was his capture, doesn't tell you something, then you're just being willfully dense.

Then again, you thought Mullah Omar was one of the 9-11 perpatrators.

[lapyignipinge]

You truly are a testament to liberal "thought".

Unable to weigh the merits of any argument, possition or evidence on your own, just desperately clinging to the last thing you were told.

If you don't understand why there would be lack of witnesses, DNA, death certificate, or body, then you've just demonstrated such breath-taking ignorance of the conditions our troops are operating under, then you should truly hang your head in shame.

If the fact that the intel unit responsible for his capture was disbanded, and not reformed under a new administration that said its top priority was his capture, doesn't tell you something, then you're just being willfully dense.

Then again, you thought Mullah Omar was one of the 9-11 perpatrators.

If you ever read anything I wrote about 9/11 I was disgusted with Bush's lack of action on killing or capturing OBL and the people who protected him. You are trying to cover up the most inept administration in my lifetime. I never said Omar planned 9/11 but he did refuse to turn over OBL to us. You cannot cover up the post 9/11 disaster and neither will history. The inaction by Bush let Al Qaeda and the Taliban regroup and grow and was one of many disasters that were passed on to the new administration.

Afghanistan was virtually ignored and we dumped billions into Pakistan with little or no results, it took Obama putting their feet to the fire to get the results that should have been done years before.

If you can look the results objectively even you would admit that Obama has been much more effective at neutralizing Al Qaeda and the Taliban than Bush.

[spacecrafty]

Bin Laden didn't provide the ideology for 9/11? ... You need to start with the 9-11 Commission Report. I read it. Did you?

You've just proven that you didn't, or certainly that you didn't understand it or you'd have recognized the name Saayid Qutb. You didn't even bother to google it when I first pointed out your error and charged right ahead.

Why not try The Looming Tower, In the shade of the koran, and then you can try to re-read the 9-11 report. In fact, you probably won't even read this far into my post.

Oh-Bin Laden didn't provide the training eh?

Wikipedia? Really?

From wikipedia: Bin Laden provided leadership for the plot, along with financial support, and was involved in selecting participants for the plot.

Doesn't say anything about training, which isn't surprising since he didn't know anything about the technical details of hijacking, much less how to fly a plane. He was the rainmaker, KSM arranged all the tactical aspects of the mission.

But really, I wonder why I bother.

Why did you have to go and claim to have read a book that you couldn't have possibly read? Are you so lazy that you didn't bother to google Qutb 9-11 report, y'know, just to check?

You've proven yourself to be unscrupulous with that claim, not to mention it's an illustration of your lack of intellectual curriousity.

[spacecrafty]

I never said Omar planned 9/11 but he did refuse to turn over OBL to us.

Then, this is just two disconnected thoughts?

To this day I still cannot figure out what the hell Bush was thinking when he let the actual perpetrators of 9/11 get away. If OBL and Omar are still in Pakistan we still have a chance to bring them to justice.

You cannot cover up the post 9/11 disaster and neither will history.

"Disaster"??? Seven years (now eight) without a major attack on U.S. soil is a disaster?

Look, there's a lot of things I don't like and didn't like about the Bush Administration and even how they've conducted the WOT, but you're absolutely blind not to see that we've been incredibly successful thus far in keeping this country safe.

[lapyignipinge]

Then, this is just two disconnected thoughts?





"Disaster"??? Seven years (now eight) without a major attack on U.S. soil is a disaster?

Look, there's a lot of things I don't like and didn't like about the Bush Administration and even how they've conducted the WOT, but you're absolutely blind not to see that we've been incredibly successful thus far in keeping this country safe.

You're misreading what I wrote, to be clear they fled together and Bush failed to stop the flight and did little to bring them to justice. As far as keeping the country safe when Obama came into office the Taliban was closing in on the Pakistan nuclear stockpile. He left the leadership intact and now we have to deal with them in Yemen. Give some examples of terror attacks that Bush stopped.