36 people are missing - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**Joesred** · 01-04-2007, 02:44 AM

We used to be a country that stood for human rights.

Now we are a country that tortures. I, along with Human Rights watch, want President Bush to tell us where these 36 missing people are. This is not something that the USA that I know, does. I do not respect countries that extraordinarily render people and send them to be tortured. This is not what my country stands for.

“President Bush told us that the last 14 CIA prisoners were sent to Guantanamo, but there are many other prisoners ‘disappeared’ by the CIA whose fate is still unknown,” said Joanne Mariner, terrorism and counterterrorism director at Human Rights Watch. “The question is: what happened to these people and where are they now?”

In early September, 14 detainees were transferred from secret CIA prisons to military custody at Guantanamo Bay. In a televised speech on September 6, President Bush announced that with those 14 transfers, no prisoners were left in CIA custody.

The former CIA detainee, Marwan Jabour, told Human Rights Watch about a number of other people who were in CIA detention but whose present whereabouts are unknown. Jabour saw one of these men, Algerian terrorism suspect Yassir al-Jazeeri, as recently as July 2006 in CIA custody.

“The Bush administration needs to provide a full accounting of everyone who was ‘disappeared’ into CIA prisons, including their names, locations, and when they left US custody,” Mariner said.

Human Rights Watch’s letter to Bush contained two lists of missing detainees. The first list names 16 people whom Human Rights Watch believes were held in CIA prisons and whose current whereabouts are unknown. The second list names 22 people who may have been held in CIA prisons and whose current whereabouts are unknown. Marwan Jabour was arrested by Pakistani authorities in May 2004 in Pakistan and held for more than a month at a secret facility in Islamabad operated by both US and Pakistani personnel, during which time he was badly abused. In June, he was flown to another secret prison, which he believes was in Afghanistan, where all or nearly all of the personnel were American.

His clothes were taken from him when he arrived, and he was left completely naked for a month and a half, including during questioning by women interrogators and filming. He was chained tightly to the wall of his small cell so that he could not stand up, placed in painful stress positions so that he had difficulty breathing, and told that if he did not cooperate he would be put in a suffocating “dog box.”

During the more than two years that he was held in this secret prison, Jabour spent nearly all of his time alone in a windowless cell, with little human contact besides his captors. Although he worried incessantly about his wife and three young daughters, he was not allowed even to send them a letter to reassure them that he was alive.

“It was a grave,” Jabour later told Human Rights Watch. “I felt like my life was over.”

The wife of another former CIA detainee whose whereabouts remain unknown told Human Rights Watch that she has had to lie to her four children about her husband’s “disappearance.” She explained that she could not bear telling them that she did not know where he was.

“What I’m hoping,” she said, “is if they find out their father has been detained, that I’ll at least be able to tell them what country he’s being held in, and in what conditions.”

Enforced disappearance involves arbitrary, secret and incommunicado detention, and poses a serious risk to the right to life and to protection from torture and other mistreatment. As these cases make clear, enforced disappearance also inflicts severe mental pain and suffering on the “disappeared” person’s family. US: Secret CIA Prisoners Still Missing (Human Rights Watch, 26-2-2007)

**SmuffNuSMaxqh** · 01-04-2007, 03:32 AM

I would expect, and support, a hearty "fuck off" in response. Screw Human Rights Watch. They, and you, don't have a right to know...

**SypeKifef** · 01-04-2007, 03:44 AM

as the liberal pro gay anti christian person that you are steve...... i am impressed.. in a good way. better our hearts bleed for our family friends and country then to international terrorists.

**SmuffNuSMaxqh** · 01-04-2007, 03:47 AM

as the liberal pro gay anti christian person that you are steve......

Hehehehehe... yep, that's me...

**Jerwittdergut** · 01-04-2007, 04:05 AM

I would expect, and support, a hearty "fuck off" in response. Screw Human Rights Watch. They, and you, don't have a right to know...

They do have the right to know. So do we. And why do so many want to turn this country into a banana republic?

**Joesred** · 01-04-2007, 04:07 AM

Steve's not a liberal. He's a conservative pro gay, anti-Christian. One of a kind.

And I don't agree, obviously, with you, that our country should be engaging in this despicable behaviour. Up until the Bush admin, we officially rose above torture. Now we officially condone and engage in it. I'm disgusted.

If you two torture lovers would read the stories about these people who have been tortured, you would find out that they are NOT terrorists. They were suspected and then released, when our torturing government found out they were innocent.

But anyone with brown skin speaking Arabic is a terrorist to you right?

**Gymnfacymoota** · 01-04-2007, 04:19 AM

We have no right to know what the government does with our money. They can torture and make people "disappear" without our knowledge.

**SypeKifef** · 01-04-2007, 04:21 AM

Steve's not a liberal. He's a conservative pro gay, anti-Christian. One of a kind.

And I don't agree, obviously, with you, that our country should be engaging in this despicable behaviour. Up until the Bush admin, we officially rose above torture. Now we officially condone and engage in it. I'm disgusted.

If you two torture lovers would read the stories about these people who have been tortured, you would find out that they are NOT terrorists. They were suspected and then released, when our torturing government found out they were innocent.

But anyone with brown skin speaking Arabic is a terrorist to you right?

i trust the cia more then i trust the people they pick up. stories of prisoners falsly accusing and exagerating thier treatment have come out of guantomno and else where.. all in an effort to tarnish america.. personally i am for torture of people we KNOW to be terrorists but i guess its impossible to tell for sure exactly how guilty a person is. but these methods are not exactly what i would call torture in the medievle sense.. so i am not that bothered by it... let me know if we start raping children and wives infront of people.. removing various body parts.. etc.. then i will be upset.. but only if the guy was innocent.

**Gymnfacymoota** · 01-04-2007, 04:27 AM

i trust the cia more then i trust the people they pick up. stories of prisoners falsly accusing and exagerating thier treatment have come out of guantomno and else where.. all in an effort to tarnish america.. personally i am for torture of people we KNOW to be terrorists but i guess its impossible to tell for sure exactly how guilty a person is. but these methods are not exactly what i would call torture in the medievle sense.. so i am not that bothered by it... let me know if we start raping children and wives infront of people.. removing various body parts.. etc.. then i will be upset.. but only if the guy was innocent.

Hitler needed more people like you in Germany. You'd probably still deny the Holocaust if the Gestapo told you all the death camp prisoners were convicted for murder and were waiting execution by humane means, or that the death camp was a resort.

**Joesred** · 01-04-2007, 04:30 AM

i trust the cia more then i trust the people they pick up. stories of prisoners falsly accusing and exagerating thier treatment have come out of guantomno and else where.. all in an effort to tarnish america.. personally i am for torture of people we KNOW to be terrorists but i guess its impossible to tell for sure exactly how guilty a person is. but these methods are not exactly what i would call torture in the medievle sense.. so i am not that bothered by it... let me know if we start raping children and wives infront of people.. removing various body parts.. etc.. then i will be upset.. but only if the guy was innocent.

The people coming out of being tortured are not tarnishing America.

America is tarnishing itself by torturing people.

These methods are not exactly what you would call torture?!?!

His clothes were taken from him when he arrived, and he was left completely naked for a month and a half, including during questioning by women interrogators and filming. He was chained tightly to the wall of his small cell so that he could not stand up, placed in painful stress positions so that he had difficulty breathing, and told that if he did not cooperate he would be put in a suffocating “dog box.” Seriously?

And you say people come out of Gitmo falsely accusing the US of torturing them? That's weird, because in 2005 the US government admitted to torturing people at Gitmo. And Iraq and Afghanistan.

US acknowledges torture at Guantanamo; in Iraq, Afghanistan - UN
06.24.2005, 11:37 AM

GENEVA (AFX) - Washington has, for the first time, acknowledged to the United Nations that prisoners have been tortured at US detention centres in Guantanamo Bay, as well as Afghanistan and Iraq, a UN source said.

The acknowledgement was made in a report submitted to the UN Committee against Torture, said a member of the ten-person panel, speaking on on condition of anonymity.

'They are no longer trying to duck this and have respected their obligation to inform the UN,' the Committee member said.

'They they will have to explain themselves (to the Committee). Nothing should be kept in the dark,' he said.

UN sources said this is the first time the world body has received such a frank statement on torture from US authorities.

The Committee, which monitors respect for the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, is gathering information from the US ahead of hearings in May 2006. US acknowledges torture at Guantanamo; in Iraq, Afghanistan - UN - Forbes.com So much for being proud of our country....

**SypeKifef** · 01-04-2007, 04:32 AM

im sorry if i am more troubled by al quida and the islamic extremist movement, and the tens of thousands dieing through sectarian violence in iraq a and the threat of collapse of various moderate islamic regimes.. the hundreds of thousands dead as a result of islamic radicles then i am of the us government.

**Shipsyspeepay** · 01-04-2007, 04:33 AM

Steve's not a liberal. He's a conservative pro gay, anti-Christian. One of a kind.

Aint that the truth. But i bet hes against the death penalty and hes pro life.

**SypeKifef** · 01-04-2007, 04:34 AM

i have come out in support of any torture that involves what i call uncomfort torture.. i am alittle more guarded by methods of various arab regimes like saddam has used.. but i am against things like abu graib because they are disgusting and made our soldiers look like sexual perverts..

**SypeKifef** · 01-04-2007, 04:40 AM

i am actually fully in support of those methods anything less would piss me off.

**Serttyfd** · 01-04-2007, 04:43 AM

I would expect, and support, a hearty "fuck off" in response. Screw Human Rights Watch. They, and you, don't have a right to know...

How come you don't make yourself at home in China? Why do you have to stain a democratic nation with such nonsense?

What you advocate and support has NOTHING to do with the U.S.A. and what the people are about.

America isn't about Us vs. Them. It's about the moral foundations this nation was built on. Nationalism is for simple minded fools that mold the world into simplistic terms so they don't have to deal with the complexities of trying to maintain a level of morality that is constantly challenged by elements you glaringly support. It would be hypocritical of me to condemn al'Quaida's methodology and applaud your comments. Your comments and the al'Quaida's actions are both equally morally deficient. The only way anyone can differentiate this is by the flags they carry.

Steve, the flag you carry holds no inherit moral high ground, therefore, the repugnant views quoted align with that of al'Quaida's. Perhaps the first step in stopping terrorism is to stop acting like them.

**SypeKifef** · 01-04-2007, 05:13 AM

mhmm conform this is like a debate we had before... if there was a nuke in a city and we had the guy who knew where it was.. and the only way to find the information was to torture his daughter.. would you do it? i would.. save millions of people.

**SmuffNuSMaxqh** · 01-04-2007, 05:17 AM

Up until the Bush admin, we officially rose above torture. Now we officially condone and engage in it. I'm disgusted.

You're right. It's so much better when it's unofficial...

**SmuffNuSMaxqh** · 01-04-2007, 05:18 AM

Aint that the truth. But i bet hes against the death penalty and hes pro life.

hehehehe... Yeah, that's exactly what I'm for...

**SmuffNuSMaxqh** · 01-04-2007, 05:19 AM

They do have the right to know. So do we.

No, they don't, and no, you don't.

Deal with it...

**Joesred** · 01-04-2007, 05:20 AM

Aint that the truth. But i bet hes against the death penalty and hes pro life.

Being against killing people is a good thing.

01-04-2007, 02:44 AM	#1
Joesred Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 481 Senior Member	36 people are missing We used to be a country that stood for human rights. Now we are a country that tortures. I, along with Human Rights watch, want President Bush to tell us where these 36 missing people are. This is not something that the USA that I know, does. I do not respect countries that extraordinarily render people and send them to be tortured. This is not what my country stands for. “President Bush told us that the last 14 CIA prisoners were sent to Guantanamo, but there are many other prisoners ‘disappeared’ by the CIA whose fate is still unknown,” said Joanne Mariner, terrorism and counterterrorism director at Human Rights Watch. “The question is: what happened to these people and where are they now?” In early September, 14 detainees were transferred from secret CIA prisons to military custody at Guantanamo Bay. In a televised speech on September 6, President Bush announced that with those 14 transfers, no prisoners were left in CIA custody. The former CIA detainee, Marwan Jabour, told Human Rights Watch about a number of other people who were in CIA detention but whose present whereabouts are unknown. Jabour saw one of these men, Algerian terrorism suspect Yassir al-Jazeeri, as recently as July 2006 in CIA custody. “The Bush administration needs to provide a full accounting of everyone who was ‘disappeared’ into CIA prisons, including their names, locations, and when they left US custody,” Mariner said. Human Rights Watch’s letter to Bush contained two lists of missing detainees. The first list names 16 people whom Human Rights Watch believes were held in CIA prisons and whose current whereabouts are unknown. The second list names 22 people who may have been held in CIA prisons and whose current whereabouts are unknown. Marwan Jabour was arrested by Pakistani authorities in May 2004 in Pakistan and held for more than a month at a secret facility in Islamabad operated by both US and Pakistani personnel, during which time he was badly abused. In June, he was flown to another secret prison, which he believes was in Afghanistan, where all or nearly all of the personnel were American. His clothes were taken from him when he arrived, and he was left completely naked for a month and a half, including during questioning by women interrogators and filming. He was chained tightly to the wall of his small cell so that he could not stand up, placed in painful stress positions so that he had difficulty breathing, and told that if he did not cooperate he would be put in a suffocating “dog box.” During the more than two years that he was held in this secret prison, Jabour spent nearly all of his time alone in a windowless cell, with little human contact besides his captors. Although he worried incessantly about his wife and three young daughters, he was not allowed even to send them a letter to reassure them that he was alive. “It was a grave,” Jabour later told Human Rights Watch. “I felt like my life was over.” The wife of another former CIA detainee whose whereabouts remain unknown told Human Rights Watch that she has had to lie to her four children about her husband’s “disappearance.” She explained that she could not bear telling them that she did not know where he was. “What I’m hoping,” she said, “is if they find out their father has been detained, that I’ll at least be able to tell them what country he’s being held in, and in what conditions.” Enforced disappearance involves arbitrary, secret and incommunicado detention, and poses a serious risk to the right to life and to protection from torture and other mistreatment. As these cases make clear, enforced disappearance also inflicts severe mental pain and suffering on the “disappeared” person’s family. US: Secret CIA Prisoners Still Missing (Human Rights Watch, 26-2-2007) Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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01-04-2007, 03:32 AM	#2
SmuffNuSMaxqh Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 587 Senior Member	I would expect, and support, a hearty "fuck off" in response. Screw Human Rights Watch. They, and you, don't have a right to know... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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01-04-2007, 03:44 AM	#3
SypeKifef Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 571 Senior Member	as the liberal pro gay anti christian person that you are steve...... i am impressed.. in a good way. better our hearts bleed for our family friends and country then to international terrorists. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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01-04-2007, 03:47 AM	#4
SmuffNuSMaxqh Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 587 Senior Member	as the liberal pro gay anti christian person that you are steve...... Hehehehehe... yep, that's me... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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01-04-2007, 04:05 AM	#5
Jerwittdergut Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 436 Senior Member	I would expect, and support, a hearty "fuck off" in response. Screw Human Rights Watch. They, and you, don't have a right to know... They do have the right to know. So do we. And why do so many want to turn this country into a banana republic? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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01-04-2007, 04:07 AM	#6
Joesred Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 481 Senior Member	Steve's not a liberal. He's a conservative pro gay, anti-Christian. One of a kind. And I don't agree, obviously, with you, that our country should be engaging in this despicable behaviour. Up until the Bush admin, we officially rose above torture. Now we officially condone and engage in it. I'm disgusted. If you two torture lovers would read the stories about these people who have been tortured, you would find out that they are NOT terrorists. They were suspected and then released, when our torturing government found out they were innocent. But anyone with brown skin speaking Arabic is a terrorist to you right? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

01-04-2007, 04:19 AM	#7
Gymnfacymoota Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 470 Senior Member	We have no right to know what the government does with our money. They can torture and make people "disappear" without our knowledge. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

01-04-2007, 04:21 AM	#8
SypeKifef Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 571 Senior Member	Steve's not a liberal. He's a conservative pro gay, anti-Christian. One of a kind. And I don't agree, obviously, with you, that our country should be engaging in this despicable behaviour. Up until the Bush admin, we officially rose above torture. Now we officially condone and engage in it. I'm disgusted. If you two torture lovers would read the stories about these people who have been tortured, you would find out that they are NOT terrorists. They were suspected and then released, when our torturing government found out they were innocent. But anyone with brown skin speaking Arabic is a terrorist to you right? i trust the cia more then i trust the people they pick up. stories of prisoners falsly accusing and exagerating thier treatment have come out of guantomno and else where.. all in an effort to tarnish america.. personally i am for torture of people we KNOW to be terrorists but i guess its impossible to tell for sure exactly how guilty a person is. but these methods are not exactly what i would call torture in the medievle sense.. so i am not that bothered by it... let me know if we start raping children and wives infront of people.. removing various body parts.. etc.. then i will be upset.. but only if the guy was innocent. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

01-04-2007, 04:27 AM	#9
Gymnfacymoota Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 470 Senior Member	i trust the cia more then i trust the people they pick up. stories of prisoners falsly accusing and exagerating thier treatment have come out of guantomno and else where.. all in an effort to tarnish america.. personally i am for torture of people we KNOW to be terrorists but i guess its impossible to tell for sure exactly how guilty a person is. but these methods are not exactly what i would call torture in the medievle sense.. so i am not that bothered by it... let me know if we start raping children and wives infront of people.. removing various body parts.. etc.. then i will be upset.. but only if the guy was innocent. Hitler needed more people like you in Germany. You'd probably still deny the Holocaust if the Gestapo told you all the death camp prisoners were convicted for murder and were waiting execution by humane means, or that the death camp was a resort. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

01-04-2007, 04:30 AM	#10
Joesred Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 481 Senior Member	i trust the cia more then i trust the people they pick up. stories of prisoners falsly accusing and exagerating thier treatment have come out of guantomno and else where.. all in an effort to tarnish america.. personally i am for torture of people we KNOW to be terrorists but i guess its impossible to tell for sure exactly how guilty a person is. but these methods are not exactly what i would call torture in the medievle sense.. so i am not that bothered by it... let me know if we start raping children and wives infront of people.. removing various body parts.. etc.. then i will be upset.. but only if the guy was innocent. The people coming out of being tortured are not tarnishing America. America is tarnishing itself by torturing people. These methods are not exactly what you would call torture?!?! His clothes were taken from him when he arrived, and he was left completely naked for a month and a half, including during questioning by women interrogators and filming. He was chained tightly to the wall of his small cell so that he could not stand up, placed in painful stress positions so that he had difficulty breathing, and told that if he did not cooperate he would be put in a suffocating “dog box.” Seriously? And you say people come out of Gitmo falsely accusing the US of torturing them? That's weird, because in 2005 the US government admitted to torturing people at Gitmo. And Iraq and Afghanistan. US acknowledges torture at Guantanamo; in Iraq, Afghanistan - UN 06.24.2005, 11:37 AM GENEVA (AFX) - Washington has, for the first time, acknowledged to the United Nations that prisoners have been tortured at US detention centres in Guantanamo Bay, as well as Afghanistan and Iraq, a UN source said. The acknowledgement was made in a report submitted to the UN Committee against Torture, said a member of the ten-person panel, speaking on on condition of anonymity. 'They are no longer trying to duck this and have respected their obligation to inform the UN,' the Committee member said. 'They they will have to explain themselves (to the Committee). Nothing should be kept in the dark,' he said. UN sources said this is the first time the world body has received such a frank statement on torture from US authorities. The Committee, which monitors respect for the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, is gathering information from the US ahead of hearings in May 2006. US acknowledges torture at Guantanamo; in Iraq, Afghanistan - UN - Forbes.com So much for being proud of our country.... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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01-04-2007, 04:32 AM	#11
SypeKifef Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 571 Senior Member	im sorry if i am more troubled by al quida and the islamic extremist movement, and the tens of thousands dieing through sectarian violence in iraq a and the threat of collapse of various moderate islamic regimes.. the hundreds of thousands dead as a result of islamic radicles then i am of the us government. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

01-04-2007, 04:33 AM	#12
Shipsyspeepay Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 492 Senior Member	Steve's not a liberal. He's a conservative pro gay, anti-Christian. One of a kind. Aint that the truth. But i bet hes against the death penalty and hes pro life. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

01-04-2007, 04:34 AM	#13
SypeKifef Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 571 Senior Member	i have come out in support of any torture that involves what i call uncomfort torture.. i am alittle more guarded by methods of various arab regimes like saddam has used.. but i am against things like abu graib because they are disgusting and made our soldiers look like sexual perverts.. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

01-04-2007, 04:40 AM	#14
SypeKifef Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 571 Senior Member	i am actually fully in support of those methods anything less would piss me off. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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01-04-2007, 04:43 AM	#15
Serttyfd Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 422 Senior Member	I would expect, and support, a hearty "fuck off" in response. Screw Human Rights Watch. They, and you, don't have a right to know... How come you don't make yourself at home in China? Why do you have to stain a democratic nation with such nonsense? What you advocate and support has NOTHING to do with the U.S.A. and what the people are about. America isn't about Us vs. Them. It's about the moral foundations this nation was built on. Nationalism is for simple minded fools that mold the world into simplistic terms so they don't have to deal with the complexities of trying to maintain a level of morality that is constantly challenged by elements you glaringly support. It would be hypocritical of me to condemn al'Quaida's methodology and applaud your comments. Your comments and the al'Quaida's actions are both equally morally deficient. The only way anyone can differentiate this is by the flags they carry. Steve, the flag you carry holds no inherit moral high ground, therefore, the repugnant views quoted align with that of al'Quaida's. Perhaps the first step in stopping terrorism is to stop acting like them. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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01-04-2007, 05:13 AM	#16
SypeKifef Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 571 Senior Member	mhmm conform this is like a debate we had before... if there was a nuke in a city and we had the guy who knew where it was.. and the only way to find the information was to torture his daughter.. would you do it? i would.. save millions of people. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

01-04-2007, 05:17 AM	#17
SmuffNuSMaxqh Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 587 Senior Member	Up until the Bush admin, we officially rose above torture. Now we officially condone and engage in it. I'm disgusted. You're right. It's so much better when it's unofficial... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

01-04-2007, 05:18 AM	#18
SmuffNuSMaxqh Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 587 Senior Member	Aint that the truth. But i bet hes against the death penalty and hes pro life. hehehehe... Yeah, that's exactly what I'm for... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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01-04-2007, 05:19 AM	#19
SmuffNuSMaxqh Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 587 Senior Member	They do have the right to know. So do we. No, they don't, and no, you don't. Deal with it... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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01-04-2007, 05:20 AM	#20
Joesred Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 481 Senior Member	Aint that the truth. But i bet hes against the death penalty and hes pro life. Being against killing people is a good thing. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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