[LesLattis]

Rudy doesn't stand a chance once the mudslinging gets into full throttle.

Way too many skeletons in that closet.

[replicajoy]

What we are witnessing in the complete erosion of what used to be the Republican Party. You have right-wing anti-gay family values conservatives defending pro-gay move-my-wife-out-so-I-can-move-in-my-young-juicy-fruit-mistress Rudy Guiliani.

I'm applauding.

Guiliani is your choice and you go for it damnit. Shit, we're liberals .. what the fuck do we know about being a conservative? You guys are right.. fuck principles, family values,

You are talking about the same party that booed republicans when Bill Clinton's marriage was called into question and said that all the personal busniess should be left alone, right? You know, all that talk of being a bad husband doesn't mean anything about being a bad president?

[replicajoy]

Rudy doesn't stand a chance once the mudslinging gets into full throttle.

Way too many skeletons in that closet.

I am not so certain. Skeletons have a way of being shoved aside when a person's celebrity is strong enough. Clinton had tons of skeletons, and he skated past every one.

[LesLattis]

I am not so certain. Skeletons have a way of being shoved aside when a person's celebrity is strong enough. Clinton had tons of skeletons, and he skated past every one.

Rudi is no "Slick" Willie...very very few are that slick.

So you think Rudi's strong suit is his celebrity power?


Well, I hope that he emerges as the Republican candidate... That way after the Democratic candidate wins the presidency, we can say... "The Republicans got the candidate that they deserved"

[Doctorpills]

Rudi is no "Slick" Willie...very very few are that slick.

So you think Rudi's strong suit is his celebrity power?


Well, I hope that he emerges as the Republican candidate... That way after the Democratic candidate wins the presidency, we can say... "The Republicans got the candidate that they deserved"

I still can't condemn a man who cleaned up the greatest state, who took the mob head on, and who was down with his consituents at the worst possible moment in their lives, one of them, leading them. You can say it's overdone or said too much, but it isn't. You can find shortcomings, lies, deciet, and fault in every leader or leadership candidate, what is tough to find is actual examples of leadership. He has those.

[cokLoolioli]

Actually, I had forgotten about that. Illegal, though? Maybe not on the up and up but I don't believe there was anything criminal in it. BTW, you say he "left the country" like that was a bad thing. If I had gotten a Rhodes Scholarship when I was in school, I'd have left the country, too.

Point being he wasnt supposed to leave the country. He was supposed to report for induction. But, I dont know how much of this is true, so who knows. I am simply saying if thats what he did, it was dodging the draft through illegal means, unlike his other draft dodging, which was using contacts. If this is what Guiliani did, then yes, its the same thing. And I have a problem with both of them trying to get out of service.

[Ferkilort]

Clinton as POTUS was a STILL a Cowardly fucking Traitor punk but also a Treasoer for dealing the fucking Communist Chinese! He should be shot or hung for his crimes! Did I mention Clinton was a slithering fucking Sex Pervert who probably bothers children!

But on the other hand he could actually string a coherent sentence together

[replicajoy]

I still can't condemn a man who cleaned up the greatest state, who took the mob head on, and who was down with his consituents at the worst possible moment in their lives, one of them, leading them. You can say it's overdone or said too much, but it isn't. You can find shortcomings, lies, deciet, and fault in every leader or leadership candidate, what is tough to find is actual examples of leadership. He has those.

Hear, hear! I like Rudy a lot. While he isn't as "clean" as some people might like, I don't expect anyone to be perfect, so he's fine by me. And I am a NYer, too.

[stunnyravytal]

Guliani doesn't stand a chance. His pro-abortion, pro-gay, and pro-gun control positions will not fly. He's a liberal who just happens to have an "R" next to his name. Go Duncan Hunter!!!

[Jerwittdergut]

Point being he wasnt supposed to leave the country. He was supposed to report for induction. But, I dont know how much of this is true, so who knows. I am simply saying if thats what he did, it was dodging the draft through illegal means, unlike his other draft dodging, which was using contacts. If this is what Guiliani did, then yes, its the same thing. And I have a problem with both of them trying to get out of service.

As you say, we don't know for sure what happened then and I can't say I remember enough about the incident to discuss it intelligently. On the other hand, Vietnam was it's own beast and there were a lot of people who did everything they could to get out of going. I don't see anything different between him not going really and Bush using his contacts to get into the national guard so he wouldn't be deployed. Just different avenues that were available if one was poor or if one was rich. In fact, I work for someone who's student deferrment got pulled for his anti-war activism during that time.

Do you have the same objections to Cheney's five deferrments, though? They didn't seem to bother anyone during the campaign and were barely discussed except by folk who wouldn't have voted for Bush/Cheney in any event.

[funnyPasds]

I still can't condemn a man who cleaned up the greatest state, who took the mob head on, and who was down with his consituents at the worst possible moment in their lives, one of them, leading them. You can say it's overdone or said too much, but it isn't. You can find shortcomings, lies, deciet, and fault in every leader or leadership candidate, what is tough to find is actual examples of leadership. He has those.

I agree. The man walks the walk. He did a terrific job cleaning up the mess he inherited from Dinkens in NYC. He is going to be a very formidable candidate.

[YpbWF5Yo]

You are talking about the same party that booed republicans when Bill Clinton's marriage was called into question and said that all the personal busniess should be left alone, right? You know, all that talk of being a bad husband doesn't mean anything about being a bad president?

I'm not a democrat, but let's not forget all the lashes Clinton took for his actions, real or perceived. The right dug up everything they could find, made-up what they couldn't find, and assasinated Clinton's character every chance they got.

Guiliani's character and marriage should be questioned where hypocrisy is evident. Clinton didn't preach "family values" nor did he lead anyone to believe that he was a sexual prude. Guiliani can't be pro-gay and have lived with gays one day, then be anti-gay all of a sudden the next day without people justifably questioning his motives. He can't pitch family values to the right and have the sleaze background that he has. He can't spout a lot of pro-war espit de' corp sacrifice American lives for your country rhetoric when he dodged the military himself.

Clinton's faux pax came after he was in office, but Guiliani comes into the race a flawed candidate. By the time democrats AND republicans get through tearing into his ass it will be interesting to see how much of him is left.

I agree with much of what you've said .. but this is called "what's good for the goose ... ". Perhaps political spin machines will one day reconsider making personal attacks part of the campaign. But after listening to 7 years of boisterous republican spin machine talk radio inspired rancor, the blowback is going to get ugly.

Rudy is in for a bumpy ride thanks to the hate-Clinton crowd.

[YpbWF5Yo]

I still can't condemn a man who cleaned up the greatest state, who took the mob head on, and who was down with his consituents at the worst possible moment in their lives, one of them, leading them. You can say it's overdone or said too much, but it isn't. You can find shortcomings, lies, deciet, and fault in every leader or leadership candidate, what is tough to find is actual examples of leadership. He has those.

Unfortunately the right-wing didn't think about that when they were/still are obsessed with destroying Clinton. Clinton didn't go into the election with his negatives and even when they were known he STILL remained popular and is even to this day .. in spite of the right-wing spin machine.

Perhaps Rudy will be as strong .. but his greatest attacks will come from the right during the primaries.

[cokLoolioli]

As you say, we don't know for sure what happened then and I can't say I remember enough about the incident to discuss it intelligently. On the other hand, Vietnam was it's own beast and there were a lot of people who did everything they could to get out of going. I don't see anything different between him not going really and Bush using his contacts to get into the national guard so he wouldn't be deployed. Just different avenues that were available if one was poor or if one was rich. In fact, I work for someone who's student deferrment got pulled for his anti-war activism during that time.

Do you have the same objections to Cheney's five deferrments, though? They didn't seem to bother anyone during the campaign and were barely discussed except by folk who wouldn't have voted for Bush/Cheney in any event.

Yes, I do have the same objections, but I dont think theyre relavent to the campaign, nor were Clintons. Things he did 30 years ago do not matter today in most cases. That goes for all candidates. People change.

[LesLattis]

I still can't condemn a man who cleaned up the greatest state, who took the mob head on, and who was down with his consituents at the worst possible moment in their lives, one of them, leading them. You can say it's overdone or said too much, but it isn't. You can find shortcomings, lies, deciet, and fault in every leader or leadership candidate, what is tough to find is actual examples of leadership. He has those.

Like I said, I really hope he gets the nomination. He will be an easy candidate to beat as long as Hillary is not the Democratic nominee.

If that ends up being the case, I would vote for Julliani.

[Jerwittdergut]

Yes, I do have the same objections, but I dont think theyre relavent to the campaign, nor were Clintons. Things he did 30 years ago do not matter today in most cases. That goes for all candidates. People change.

Fair enough. However you stated you had a problem with Giuliani *dodging* the draft and brought up the legality of Clinton's actions, so perhaps I assumed that your objections went so far as this election cycle.

Oh...and to TheLastBoyScout:

I actually think Giuliani is an interesting questionmark. I doubt that the right will allow him to get past the primaries. And what happens in a face off between him and Clinton could be a toss up. Neither is particularly likeable. Both have "star power" and Giuliani has the 9/11 mystique. To me, at least, who wins would come down to: will middle America come out to vote for a NY Italian moderate Republican with a checkered past or will they come out in droves to vote AGAINST Hillary Clinton.

[replicajoy]

Unfortunately the right-wing didn't think about that when they were/still are obsessed with destroying Clinton. Clinton didn't go into the election with his negatives and even when they were known he STILL remained popular and is even to this day .. in spite of the right-wing spin machine.

You keep saying that Clinton's mistakes happened after he was president, but that's not true. Jennifer Flowers (or was it some other woman?) happened before Clinton took office as president. Maybe I am mistaken, but didn't Clinton have more than one alleged infidelity story while he was still governor? Not sure and don't really care enough to look up as I don't want to sift through Clinton-hater nonsense, but Bill Clinton was "dirty" before he was president is that point I am making.

But, you're right. Rudy will have to get pushed around a lot by the GOP before he deals with the dems. It should be pretty interesting, I think.

[xtc2d6u8]

Rudy doesn't stand a chance once the mudslinging gets into full throttle.

Way too many skeletons in that closet.

But of course the lying bitch from Arkysaw, the criminal whore who has her business associates whacked and made to look like suicide is far more viable, right Lefty pukes?

What about a half-breed who wants to be white and is a Islamic sympathizer and inexperienced punk, is he right for the job!

How about the Convenient Lie dysfunctional asshole from Tennessee, who actually believes buying "carbon" credits mean a fuckin thing to the sane people of America!

Of course I know you Left Coasters admire a person who loves to abort and murder babies, defend Pedophile assholes and stand up for Queers, so Edwards is your man or is the Kerry fallout still there??