[AlexanderDrew]

Well, I live in Arizona and I will tell you something that, probably, you do not know.
A- This so-called bill to make minutemen criminals was introduced by a democrat. Therefor: It has about as much chance of becoming law or for that matter getting a hearing in committee, as a snowball has in hell. Arizona has a majority Republican House and Senate and they are constantly bickering with the democratic governor about laws that they pass and she veto's. They do no longer have the power to over ride her veto's so they have to compromise. In the long run, good laws get passed and yahoo laws get vetoed. All for the better of the State. To show you what people think of this, this proposed law has not even made the local papers.

As for the so called marriage protection act. They wanted to change the constitution to insert the usual clause that only a man and a woman can get married. However, there was already a law on the books stating the same thing and the people of Arizona, being the practical kind, saw this thing as overkill and voted against it.

[estheticianI]

Suppose a Minuteman DOES use a gun, and shoots an illegal-alien woman who is pregnant while crossing the border. She survives, but loses the baby. Will Sinema throw the Minuteman in jail, or give him a medal for providing a free abortion?

Arizona voters ELECTED this person. Too much sun, maybe?

Another hypothetical, little-acorn, could be that your car breaks down an illegal immigrant is crossing the road just as you get out of your car. A Minuteman fires and the bullet misses the immigrant and kills you. She might, if she had any sense, give the Minuteman a medal for a retrospective abortion!!

[estheticianI]

LMAO

What color is the sky in your world?

PJ, I don't think it is the 'colour' of the sky as the fact that it is falling in the world of some in this thread!

[ahagotyou]

The Minuteman Project (MMP) is a citizens' Vigilance Operation monitoring immigration, business, and government. MMP has no affiliation with, nor will we accept any assistance by or interference from, separatists, racists, or supremacy groups.

But if an organization needs to put that at the top it's website, well I think it's safe to asssume that it attracts alot of racists.

Here's a picture of two minutemen.



Notice that home made sign they are holding has the same fear mongering image as the neo-Nazi group, National Alliance has on their billboard.

Nazis, racists join Minuteman Project

Of course most of this is anecdotal and you have to consider the source, SPLC, which can be overly alarmist itself. But one must question the mental stability of guys who want to dress up in camo and go play soldier/cop in the desert hunting for some non-existant threat. It is a recipe for disaster that impedes security.

You don't know the motivation of all of these "border vigilantes" because everyone has their own reasons for doing it. Of course some may be there for benign reasons such as a false sense of patriotism, some time alone in the desert to "get their head together", a sense of comraderie, relive their "glory days" in the military etc. The simple kooks.

But there is no doubt that others are there for more nefarious reasons. Alot of crimes against undocumented aliens will naturally go unreported for obvious reasons. There will always be people that prey on those who are afraid to report incidents to law enforcement.


Here is a t-shirt from a minuteman.


Barton is obviously racist punk. And of course most of these guys are kooks.

The FBI needs to watch these guys and the local LEO's very carefully.

[MzTT]

LMAO

What color is the sky in your world?

Funny thing....

Back sometime in the mid- to late-90's Tom Clancy wrote a book detailing how a foreign national could use an airliner to crash into the Capitol bulding and wreak havoc on the US government.

Lots of people considered it nothing more than a flight of fancy, and that nothing like that could EVER happen....

[MzTT]

Another hypothetical, little-acorn, could be that your car breaks down an illegal immigrant is crossing the road just as you get out of your car. A Minuteman fires and the bullet misses the immigrant and kills you.

Minutemen are typically UNARMED. Even if they were not, there is no shooting going on, or perhaps you could identify a single reported instance of this?

She might, if she had any sense, give the Minuteman a medal for a retrospective abortion!!

The term you want is retroactive, not retrospective.

Yes, the language police were necessary here.

[annouhMus]

Is this surprising? She is a Democrat after all.

Varus

Sur5prising? nah, there are lots of people out there who speak their minds,(garbage) including Varuses

[annouhMus]

Exactly.

I always thought Az was a moderate to conservative state but apparently not, since they elected this bone head.

There is stupidity in all parties and political persuasions.

Kerry, Bush, Gore, Kennedy, Libby, Rumsfeldt, etc.

[Heliosprime]

as usual this is just senseless hype..and fear mongering...of the cheapest sort...I would like to see one..ONE minuteman case that has been brought and amounted to a conviction regards wrong doings by the group......it the usual rope a dope..like the aclu bringing suites for “citizens” who they do not in fact have, regards names wrongdoing documented etc. for wire taping..its all a preemption based on hypotheticals…. if the gov. or a right wing group is doing something it must be illegal and/or illegalities will be perpetrated….sorta of a their own lefty take off of the movie Minority Report…

then there’s the Minuteman spokesman being run off stage by Colombia students, actually charging the stage……this was video taped fact….his right to be heard of course goes down the lefty free speech rabbit hole…with a thump…

and I am still waiting to hear from you know who,who claimed the minutemen ran a group off stage….but that was just bombast, to post a rebuttal with no facts….as a porous defense…

[homerdienru]

John McCain is a Liberal republican. If he was a pure conservitive he would had spoken for those minutemen.

[Heliosprime]

John McCain is a Liberal republican. If he was a pure conservitive he would had spoken for those minutemen.

agreed and Bush if he were a real con. would not have called them vigilantes......

[ahagotyou]

agreed and Bush if he were a real con. would not have called them vigilantes......

Actually they are self-described vigilantes.

The Minuteman Project (MMP) is a citizens' Vigilance Operation monitoring immigration, business, and government

http://www.minutemanproject.com/default.asp


They are also undermining border security.

The Border Patrol said volunteers were setting off sensors along the border and blurring footprints that agents follow.

"They're tromping all over the place making our job a little more difficult," Tucson-based Border Patrol spokesman Andy Adame told The Washington Post. "It's not a major crisis, but it is detrimental to operations." Source

[homerdienru]

Well we do need vigilantes.Causde the police wont do their jobs to protect us.

Is this Protecting Society? You be the Judge



So We need these people to protect society

[ahagotyou]

Well we do need vigilantes.Causde the police wont do their jobs to protect us.

Is this Protecting Society? You be the Judge

So We need these people to protect society

None of the above.

It's not an either/or proposition.

[estheticianI]

None of the above.

It's not an either/or proposition.

Hairball, we are in complete accord regarding vigilantism. This is the beauty of this forum. Those we think we could never find common ground with...we find it time and again!

Well done!

[jenilopaz]

Well we do need vigilantes.Causde the police wont do their jobs to protect us.

Is this Protecting Society? You be the Judge

Yes, actually, it is.

When certain people decide that obeying the traffic laws isn't for them, they need to be shown the error of their ways.

Ever been to the scene of a serious car crash, Steveox? If you had, you might understand that stopping reckless drivers is indeed protecting the public.

Matt

[tickerinet]

Actually on the northern border near Vancouver it is a well known fact that many of the minutemen have ties with white supremist groups. Keep them on your side of the border please because Vancouverites generally detest racists.

OK.

What does that have to do with Arizona?

Matt

[ahagotyou]

Yes, actually, it is.

When certain people decide that obeying the traffic laws isn't for them, they need to be shown the error of their ways.

Ever been to the scene of a serious car crash, steveox? If you had, you might understand that stopping reckless drivers is indeed protecting the public.

Matt

So what makes you think that the images Stevox posted represent "reckless drivers" Matt?

And BTW, steveox's query specifically asked about "protecting society" not "protecting the public".

There is a relevant difference there IMO.

[Sironimoll]

We're also kind of forgetting that the minutemen are essentially the KKK without the white sheets. The KKK claimed to be taking the law into their own hands because African Americans were "threatening" the safety of southern society what with their wanting to leave agricultural jobs and vote and all. Let's call these guys what they are, no need to mince words.