[Asianunta]

Our government is so oppressive. I wish I could live in another country that doesn't make people pay any taxes. I'm going to look into finding one and get back to you guys. I'm about sick of all of these pesky roads and courts to stop criminal behavior. So annoying. And this damn military. It's not like we will ever be attacked.

[JTS_tv]

Not really. He's saying that we can't look at other problems while we have some really big ones already. This isn't the first time that line's been used though. It's really a stupid argument because he's said "what we're most worried about is the income tax." Nobody said that income tax is our biggest worry, it's just another topic to discuss!

Now, come on. You can surely see why some of us may be confused by individuals who at one moment seem so convinced of the benevolence of the government that they trust it to read their emails, search their homes without announcement, and send our boys in uniform wherever they wish without question, yet the next moment are saying that the government is oppressive and advocating an armed rebellion against the government, putting those same young boys in uniform who they claim to love so much in harm's way.

[WaydayTew]

massive taxation and manipulation of the US monetary system are major problems. to make things worse, we're virtually powerless to do anything to change it and its quite complicated (at least for me). i mean, trying to understand how the fed manipulates our currency is quite a challenge. for example, i'm still trying to understand why the fed. reserve has stopped listing the M3 money supply figures. from the economics articles i've read they believe its because the M3 figures would give people a clearer picture of our nations financial situation. so basically the government collects your money and also controls and manipulates the value of that money, neither of which everyday citizens can do anything about. matter of fact, only a couple of congressmen made a stink about it and are attempting to have the decision reversed. i guess my point is that even though this guy is taking a stand against oppressive government practices, i'm doubtful it'll change anything. but you never know.

[Asianunta]

massive taxation and manipulation of the US monetary system are major problems. to make things worse, we're virtually powerless to do anything to change it and its quite complicated (at least for me). i mean, trying to understand how the fed manipulates our currency is quite a challenge. for example, i'm still trying to understand why the fed. reserve has stopped listing the M3 money supply figures. from the economics articles i've read they believe its because the M3 figures would give people a clearer picture of our nations financial situation. so basically the government collects your money and also controls and manipulates the value of that money, neither of which everyday citizens can do anything about. matter of fact, only a couple of congressmen made a stink about it and are attempting to have the decision reversed. i guess my point is that even though this guy is taking a stand against oppressive government practices, i'm doubtful it'll change anything. but you never know.

So you don't think anything can be done democratically? What would you propose? Armed rebellion?

[viagraman]

Greetings and Felicitations,

I believe that is the defense the NH man is using, that there actually is no law that says we have to pay it. I don't know what his sources are for this, however.

This kind of activity is un-necessary. Anyone can stop paying income taxes whenever they want and not suffer being imprisoned. All you have to do is give up your citizenship and never have to pay taxes again. Or you can immigrate to another country that doesn't have taxes. Of course, the only countries that don't are either communist of third world but you can't have everything.

Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely

[masaredera]

Say what you want about this man, but he is doing exactly what more Americans should do, but which 99% of are too afraid to. He is standing up to an oppressive government. Yes, I am talking about the U.S. Government.

The debate over whether or not the income tax is legal has been waging since it was reinstituted in 1913 under the guise of the 16th Amendment. There has also been skepticism as to whether the 16th Amendment was even ratified.

I honestly don’t know if the income tax is Constitutional or not, but I do know one thing. The income tax has been the most oppressive tool used by the U.S. Government to keep its citizens in line. It has allowed the government to take everything from you at the point of a gun and destroy your life completely. So, legal or not, it should be done away with. The government should not be allowed to have that much power over our lives. There are many advocate groups out there that have been lobbying for its elimination, but the bottom line is it isn’t going away until you start seeing more instances like this guy having armed, bloodshedding confrontations with the government and the American people start opening their eyes.

That isn’t freedom, folks. The American people aren’t supposed to fear their government; it is they who should be fearing us. They don’t. The Founders of this nation came here to get away from exactly this kind of tyranny and I assure you they are rolling in their graves over what America has turned into. Don’t be fooled by what you were taught in school. While we may have more freedoms than any other nation, the USA is NOT a free country.

Aren't those taxes used in part to pay the soldiers and the war you support?


Andrew

[WaydayTew]

Greetings and Felicitations,



This kind of activity is un-necessary. Anyone can stop paying income taxes whenever they want and not suffer being imprisoned. All you have to do is give up your citizenship and never have to pay taxes again. Or you can immigrate to another country that doesn't have taxes. Of course, the only countries that don't are either communist of third world but you can't have everything.

Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely

while that may be true, it would seem that without citizenship you might as well be imprisoned because life would be extremely difficult. and as far as the other options are concerned, well again, you might as well go to jail. at least there you would be fed. i would assume establishing a life and a livelihood in a communist or third world nation (having entered illegaly due to lack of citizenship or as some type of refugee) would be difficult to say the least.

[Asianunta]

Aren't those taxes used in part to pay the soldiers and the war you support?


Andrew

So much for supporting the troops.

[jinnamys]

Say what you want about this man, but he is doing exactly what more Americans should do, but which 99% of are too afraid to. He is standing up to an oppressive government. Yes, I am talking about the U.S. Government.

The debate over whether or not the income tax is legal has been waging since it was reinstituted in 1913 under the guise of the 16th Amendment. There has also been skepticism as to whether the 16th Amendment was even ratified.

I honestly don’t know if the income tax is Constitutional or not, but I do know one thing. The income tax has been the most oppressive tool used by the U.S. Government to keep its citizens in line. It has allowed the government to take everything from you at the point of a gun and destroy your life completely. So, legal or not, it should be done away with. The government should not be allowed to have that much power over our lives. There are many advocate groups out there that have been lobbying for its elimination, but the bottom line is it isn’t going away until you start seeing more instances like this guy having armed, bloodshedding confrontations with the government and the American people start opening their eyes.

That isn’t freedom, folks. The American people aren’t supposed to fear their government; it is they who should be fearing us. They don’t. The Founders of this nation came here to get away from exactly this kind of tyranny and I assure you they are rolling in their graves over what America has turned into. Don’t be fooled by what you were taught in school. While we may have more freedoms than any other nation, the USA is NOT a free country.

If you want to know the truth about frivolous tax arguments, click on the link provided. the problem is that the IRS sent him at least 3 letters asking him to file, sent him a collection due process notice on the substitute return, and another five collection letters before any actions took place. But he was using a failed argument that has been rejected by the court numerous times. He brought this disaster of his own doing and no one elses. I have no pity for him nor his wife.

As for the argument about the 16th Amendment never being properly ratified, "Some assert that the collection of federal income taxes constitutes a
“taking” of property without due process of law, in violation of the Fifth
Amendment. Thus, any attempt by the Internal Revenue Service to collect
federal income taxes owed by a taxpayer is unconstitutional.
The Law: The Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution provides
that a person shall not be “deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due
process of law . . . .” The U.S. Supreme Court stated in Brushaber v.
Union Pacific R.R., 240 U.S. 1, 24 (1916), that “it is . . . well settled that
[the Fifth Amendment] is not a limitation upon the taxing power conferred
upon Congress by the Constitution; in other words, that the Constitution
does not conflict with itself by conferring upon the one hand a taxing
power, and taking the same power away on the other by limitations of the
due process clause.” Further, the Supreme Court has upheld the
constitutionality of the summary administrative procedures contained in
the Internal Revenue Code against due process challenges, on the basis
that a post-collection remedy (e.g., a tax refund suit) exists and is
sufficient to satisfy the requirements of constitutional due process. Phillips
v. Commissioner, 283 U.S. 589, 595-97 (1931).
The Internal Revenue Code provides methods to ensure due process to
taxpayers: (1) the “refund method,” set forth in section 7422(e) and 28
U.S.C. '' 1341 and 1346(a), where a taxpayer must pay the full amount of
the tax and then sue in a federal district court or in the United States Court
of Federal Claims for a refund; and (2) the “deficiency method,” set forth in
section 6213(a), where a taxpayer may, without paying the contested tax,
petition the United States Tax Court to redetermine a tax deficiency
asserted by the IRS. Courts have found that both methods provide
constitutional due process.
The IRS issued Revenue Ruling 2005-19, 2005-1 C.B. 819, which
discusses this frivolous argument in more detail, warning taxpayers of the
consequences of attempting to pursue a claim on these grounds.

Flora v. United States, 362 U.S. 145, 175 (1960) – the United States
Supreme Court held that a taxpayer must pay the full tax assessment
before being able to file a refund suit in district court, noting that a person
has the right to appeal an assessment to the Tax Court 'without paying a
cent.'
Schiff v. United States, 919 F.2d 830 (2d Cir. 1990) – the court rejected a due process claim where the taxpayer chose not to avail himself of the opportunity to appeal a deficiency notice to the Tax Court."

[jinnamys]

Greetings and Felicitations,



This kind of activity is un-necessary. Anyone can stop paying income taxes whenever they want and not suffer being imprisoned. All you have to do is give up your citizenship and never have to pay taxes again. Or you can immigrate to another country that doesn't have taxes. Of course, the only countries that don't are either communist of third world but you can't have everything.

Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely

Actually no. Under the expatriate rules effected after July 3, 2004, he may still have to pay a tax if the assets are high enough and may have to request a ruling. Please see instructions on form 8854 Publication 519, US Tax Guide for Aliens for more information.

[Eromereorybig]

Our government is so oppressive. I wish I could live in another country that doesn't make people pay any taxes. I'm going to look into finding one and get back to you guys. I'm about sick of all of these pesky roads and courts to stop criminal behavior. So annoying. And this damn military. It's not like we will ever be attacked.

great thread. And I noticed that all the folks who are cheering this guy on to not pay his taxes, kinda went away after you smarties pointed out that we can't pay for the war or anything else our great country offers without taxes.

Oh wait, actually the Iraq war is being paid for by loans from China, it's not even in the budget. I guess we can pay for that without taxes after all. But then again, who would lend our country anymore money for the war if our country has no income?

[ahagotyou]

Say what you want about this man, but he is doing exactly what more Americans should do, but which 99% of are too afraid to. He is standing up to an oppressive government. Yes, I am talking about the U.S. Government.

The debate over whether or not the income tax is legal has been waging since it was reinstituted in 1913 under the guise of the 16th Amendment. There has also been skepticism as to whether the 16th Amendment was even ratified.

I honestly don’t know if the income tax is Constitutional or not, but I do know one thing. The income tax has been the most oppressive tool used by the U.S. Government to keep its citizens in line. It has allowed the government to take everything from you at the point of a gun and destroy your life completely. So, legal or not, it should be done away with. The government should not be allowed to have that much power over our lives. There are many advocate groups out there that have been lobbying for its elimination, but the bottom line is it isn’t going away until you start seeing more instances like this guy having armed, bloodshedding confrontations with the government and the American people start opening their eyes.

That isn’t freedom, folks. The American people aren’t supposed to fear their government; it is they who should be fearing us. They don’t. The Founders of this nation came here to get away from exactly this kind of tyranny and I assure you they are rolling in their graves over what America has turned into. Don’t be fooled by what you were taught in school. While we may have more freedoms than any other nation, the USA is NOT a free country.

If he was a nigger he would already be dead.

Also, the logic behind the 16th amendment is contrary to the ennumeration clause.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

You have to go through alot of convoluted logic to justify using force to collect federal income tax from a constititional standpoint.

[Thigmaswams]

Aren't those taxes used in part to pay the soldiers and the war you support?

So much for supporting the troops.

And I noticed that all the folks who are cheering this guy on to not pay his taxes, kinda went away after you smarties pointed out that we can't pay for the war or anything else our great country offers without taxes.

No Comrade Samantha, what you noticed is that we all have lives and can't sit in front of the computer responding to you immediately.

I am not the least bit surprised you guys are defending a system that confiscates people's property and destroys their lives. None of you have taken a position in the past in any other thread that even remotely stands up for individual freedom and responsibility.

And to address your extrapolative, sarcastic comments regarding how the war is paid for, we are only talking about the INCOME TAX. Not ALL taxes. There are plenty of other income sources the Federal Government receives in the form of excise taxes, tariffs, etc. But I don't want to ask too much of you. Please, don't try and make legitimate arguments to defend the system. Just keep making snide and overly exaggerated comments. Really, we're all impressed.

[Asianunta]

No Comrade Samantha, what you noticed is that we all have lives and can't sit in front of the computer responding to you immediately.

I am not the least bit surprised you guys are defending a system that confiscates people's property and destroys their lives. None of you have taken a position in the past in any other thread that even remotely stands up for individual freedom and responsibility.

And to address your extrapolative, sarcastic comments regarding how the war is paid for, we are only talking about the INCOME TAX. Not ALL taxes. There are plenty of other income sources the Federal Government receives in the form of excise taxes, tariffs, etc. But I don't want to ask too much of you. Please, don't try and make legitimate arguments to defend the system. Just keep making snide and overly exaggerated comments. Really, we're all impressed.

No matter what forms taxes come in they are still taking a part of each of our wealth in order to have services that hold civilized society together. I think the main point of the income tax is so that people do not hide their wealth or income and pay their share.

[MegaJIT]

So this guy thinks there is no law requiring payment of income tax?
Well he has been convicted of tax evasion so at least one judge thinks there is a law which compels payment.

The obvious solution to this man's problem is to appeal the conviction. Surely if there is no law requiring that he pay income tax then he should be able to find a lawyer to file his appeal and a judge to hear it. Of course the lawyer might be dissuaded by the fact that such screwball arguments have been repeatedly laughed out of court.

[Thigmaswams]

No matter what forms taxes come in they are still taking a part of each of our wealth in order to have services that hold civilized society together. I think the main point of the income tax is so that people do not hide their wealth or income and pay their share.

Pay their fair share of what? Socialist entitlement programs that give handouts to people who don't their own keep? Their fair share of what the Federal Government has no business being involved in? Paying their fare share into a controlling system that rips people out of their homes at gun point and destroys their lives if they don't?

On the contrary, the form of the taxes is quite relevant as mentioned in Article 1. Section 9 of the Constitution:

No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken

Also, if you have ever read the Federalist Papers you would know that the authors sternly warned on how taxing people's labor would be disastrous for the country.

[WaydayTew]

So you don't think anything can be done democratically? What would you propose? Armed rebellion?

i thought i sounded pretty hopeful. as far as taxation goes, i would think electing enough officials who make overhaul a priority would be one way to go about it. or i guess a mass movement where NO ONE paid income taxes on april 15th could attract enough attention so legislators would be forced to do something. what that something would be however, i don't know. but as it stands, at over 7000 pages, the tax code might as well be chinese to most people. the (especially those who don't speak chinese) and as far as changing the monitary policy of the fed. reserve, well, it is its own agency seperate of the government and the chairman (and board of governors) is appointed by the president. so i guess you'd have to elect a reform minded president(s). yes, i'm oversimplifying and i'm sure it would be extremely complex and very time consuming. but its definitely necessary. to make matters worse, i highly doubt most members of congress, nor the president for that matter, even understand how the monetary system works. as far as armed rebellion goes, that would be the easy part. what happens after that would be the hard part.

[Asianunta]

Pay their fair share of what? Socialist entitlement programs that give handouts to people who don't their own keep? Their fair share of what the Federal Government has no business being involved in? Paying their fare share into a controlling system that rips people out of their homes at gun point and destroys their lives if they don't?

On the contrary, the form of the taxes is quite relevant as mentioned in Article 1. Section 9 of the Constitution:

No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken

Also, if you have ever read the Federalist Papers you would know that the authors sternly warned on how taxing people's labor would be disastrous for the country.

I'm sorry but how do you propose that we eliminate every single program or form of spending that not everybody in the whole country agrees with? I'm sure somebody out there doesn't want us to have any military at all and others might think we should just get rid of all police protection. I can make a list of things the government does that I do not like but that is really not going to get us anywhere.

[sarasaraseda]

It takes a real fucking goofball to spin a thread about a NH man who has a tax beef with the US gov't into some pathetic bullshit about Iraq.

[Asianunta]

It takes a real fucking goofball to spin a thread about a NH man who has a tax beef with the US gov't into some pathetic bullshit about Iraq.

A discussion had started about the federal income taxes. Income taxes are used to fund the U.S. military and war. If somebody is against income taxes then they are against the very thing that keeps it going. I believe it was pointing out an inconsistency. You can't have a war without the funds to pay for the war.