[Misespimb]

No. You are responsible for your well being. No one else.

Okay, I agree here. I should have said I think any money which goes into the government should not be spent on the well-being of others. By our "well-being" I don't mean anything as extreme as welfare for the lazy or universal healthcare, but basically maintaining some military force to be able to wage an effective defensive war.

[Teareerah]

I'd say the problem with Israel and Palestine is that they are both killing each other. The problem within the US is that many people (including leaders) are too fucking stupid to realize that you don't have to pick a side when both sides are wrong.

In this case, the Palestinian leadership is quite wrong. Has been since Arafat (who was Egyptian).

In 2000, Arafat walked away from the perfect deal. Now, Hamas exists with a primary goal of eliminating Israel. Hamas has no intention of improving Palestinian lives or of ever bringing any kind of freedom to the Palestinian people.

[Teareerah]

...I think any money which goes into the government should not be spent on the well-being of others.

And that is decided by the representatives of the people. Bush can propose a budget, but it must be approved by congress. I also have concerns (due to effectivity).

I would like to see another Africa relief campaign, and every movie star donate $2 million or the proceeds of their last film, which ever is greater.

[annouhMus]

If our leadership has the power to waste money on Iraq, Israel and Africa, then it is quite clear that they have overtaxed us severely. Either that or they will have to overtax us later in the future to pay off the massive debt.

How about both??? But waste is a powerful word that is often misunderstood.

[Misespimb]

In this case, the Palestinian leadership is quite wrong. Has been since Arafat (who was Egyptian).

In 2000, Arafat walked away from the perfect deal. Now, Hamas exists with a primary goal of eliminating Israel. Hamas has no intention of improving Palestinian lives or of ever bringing any kind of freedom to the Palestinian people.

And so are the Israelis for mercilessly killing innocent palestinians. No reason to unconditionally support either one.

[Misespimb]

And that is decided by the representatives of the people. Bush can propose a budget, but it must be approved by congress. I also have concerns (due to effectivity).

I would like to see another Africa relief campaign, and every movie star donate $2 million or the proceeds of their last film, which ever is greater.

And your point is? That if the representatives decided, they must be right and it cannot be argued because of that?

[Cajlwdvx]

Hussein is dead, Iraq is in turmoil, and the Iraqis hunger for our blood. Mission accomplished.

Hussein is dead and millions of Iraqis are breathing a little easier. Iraq is not in turmoil; there are a few rough sections, but have you been to DC lately? Iraqis do not hunger for our blood. Stop believing the lies.

Yes mission accomplished. Saddam is no longer a threat to this country and the Iraqis have the oppurtunity to create a true representative state.

Varus

[Cajlwdvx]

And so are the Israelis for mercilessly killing innocent palestinians. No reason to unconditionally support either one.

Innocent palestinians?

Guess we know your line of thinking. I'm sure if it was up to you all those Israelis would still be in auschwitz. You make me sick.

Varus

[Cajlwdvx]

And replacing that dictator with what? Well, let's see.

1. An Islamic, as opposed to secular, leadership (thanks to our Jihadists...err...US soldiers).

A freely elected govn. I know you prefer mass murdering dictators.

2. A situation where there is more torture now in Iraq than under Hussein. You must be out of your mind. No you're just an anti-semite jew hating waste of space.

3. Tens of thousands of deaths in only a few years under US oppression, rape, torture, murder and killing. Yes we know you hate America.

4. The hate of the Iraqis against the US (not only do most of them want us to leave, but a small majority even support attacks on US soldiers). From the actual soldiers i've talked to the Iraqis biggest fear is that we're going to abandon them like we did in the first gulf war. They don't hate us that's just liberal lies.

5. And no, the investigation has already admitted that it found no WMDs, with the exception of worthless, degraded WMDs that Hussein cared about greatly enough to bury them in the desert. Wrong... the wmds he had after the first gulf war still remain unaccounted for but don't let that bother you.

6. Nukes? Give me a fucking break. The only country that has nukes in the engagement between Iraq and the US is the US, and they not only have them, but have used them against their enemies in the past, not to mention the legendary belligerence of the US. Yes we know that whacked out liberals hate the arrogance of the US and would much rather the people live in poverty like most of the rest of the world.

Sounds like a good plan. Could be worse we could do nothing and keep having 9/11's every other month, like the Israelis.

Varus

[9V4i8xw1]

I have to go with Arizona Sun on this....it is "wasted" money if it is well known that local and national "officials" will take the lion share of it.
Particularly when the money is taken to support the very leaders/troops that are oppressing the people.
This has been an ONGOING problem with a great deal of foreign aid.
Countries make themselves feel good by reporting all the money they give to poor nations - but leave out the fact that the very money they donate is actually financing the regimes that are making the nation poor in the first place.

[StethyEntinic]

Sometimes I find it hard to believe that the people who don't agree with financial aid here in the US, support the funding for Iraqis and Africans. It's such a double standard

[Xavier_Spinner_Wheels]

I have to go with Arizona Sun on this....it is "wasted" money if it is well known that local and national "officials" will take the lion share of it.
Particularly when the money is taken to support the very leaders/troops that are oppressing the people.
This has been an ONGOING problem with a great deal of foreign aid.
Countries make themselves feel good by reporting all the money they give to poor nations - but leave out the fact that the very money they donate is actually financing the regimes that are making the nation poor in the first place.

Bush loves corruption, and will do anything it takes to ensure that it is well funded.

[9V4i8xw1]

Sometimes I find it hard to believe that the people who don't agree with financial aid here in the US, support the funding for Iraqis and Africans. It's such a double standard

I guess it would depend on what kind of financial aid you mean.

Flat out handing money to people without any liability coming back from them is almost always, always not only a waste - but enables them to remain in the straits.

[Misespimb]

Hussein is dead and millions of Iraqis are breathing a little easier. Iraq is not in turmoil; there are a few rough sections, but have you been to DC lately? Iraqis do not hunger for our blood. Stop believing the lies.

Yes mission accomplished. Saddam is no longer a threat to this country and the Iraqis have the oppurtunity to create a true representative state.

Varus

So is that why the majority of Iraqis support attacks upon US forces and want them to leave?

[Misespimb]

Innocent palestinians?

Guess we know your line of thinking. I'm sure if it was up to you all those Israelis would still be in auschwitz. You make me sick.

Varus

Good strawman arguement. Or perhaps ad hominem? I don't know which. Anyway, do you have anything relevant to add? Perhaps by arguing against a position that I hold?

[9V4i8xw1]

c'mon guys - does EVERY thread have to turn into yet another churned Iraq war thread??

[Misespimb]

A freely elected govn. I know you prefer mass murdering dictators.

An Islamic government, as opposed to a secular one, nonetheless. Thank you for agreeing.
You must be out of your mind. No you're just an anti-semite jew hating waste of space.
Good ad hominem attack. Not very good for argument's sake, though.

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iraq torture 'worse after Saddam'


Yes we know you hate America.
Thank you for agreeing. No need for ad hominem, though. It adds nothing to the discussion.
From the actual soldiers i've talked to the Iraqis biggest fear is that we're going to abandon them like we did in the first gulf war. They don't hate us that's just liberal lies.
Not liberal lies, it's called a poll, as opposed to your anecdotal evidence.

New Survey: Iraqis Want a Speedy U.S. Exit -- and Back Attacks on Our Forces

Don't worry, though. I think the WPO site recounted the pieces and instead of 6 out of 10, only 5 out of 10 Iraqis support attacks on US soldiers.

Wrong... the wmds he had after the first gulf war still remain unaccounted for but don't let that bother you.
CIA's final report: No WMD found in Iraq - Conflict in Iraq - MSNBC.com

No functioning, worthwhile WMDs found, nonetheless. Your propaganda can't change facts.
Yes we know that whacked out liberals hate the arrogance of the US and would much rather the people live in poverty like most of the rest of the world.
Well, I'm glad the wacked out liberals think that. Now, do you have anything relevant to add to the discussion rather than comments about the LIEBERALS!!! Or was that perhaps an ad hominem attack?
Could be worse we could do nothing and keep having 9/11's every other month, like the Israelis.

Varus Yeah, sure. Now, why don't we look at the facts.

If this trend continues, threats to US interests at home and more diverse, leading to increasing attacks worldwide. The Iraq conflict has become the “cause celebre” for jihadists, breeding a deep resentment of US involvement in the Muslim world and cultivating supporters for the global jihadist movement. http://dni.gov/press_releases/Declas..._Judgments.pdf

[9V4i8xw1]

guess so here we go...

[Cajlwdvx]

An Islamic government, as opposed to a secular one, nonetheless. Thank you for agreeing.Good ad hominem attack. Not very good for argument's sake, though.

They had a choice...we know liberals don't like that.

No functioning, worthwhile WMDs found, nonetheless. Your propaganda can't change facts.Well, I'm glad the wacked out liberals think that. Now, do you have anything relevant to add to the discussion rather than comments about the LIEBERALS!!! Or was that perhaps an ad hominem attack? He had them after the 1rst gulf war. There is absolutely no evidence he destroyed them. We havn't found the majority of them yet, yes we have found bits of the program here and there, but does that mean they don't exist?

How sad the liberals feel the need to apologize for Saddam in order to be against Bush.

Varus

[StethyEntinic]

I guess it would depend on what kind of financial aid you mean.

Flat out handing money to people without any liability coming back from them is almost always, always not only a waste - but enables them to remain in the straits.

So then why do some Americans want to support the Iraqis and Africans and make "wasteful spending" when they don't even like the idea of spending their money on Americans as it is? We all know that we aren't making these countries any richer... where do they think all this money comes from in supporting other countries?