[Peertantyb]

We have less refining capacity today than we did when Carter was president.

It makes it far more profitable for the oil companies, every time there is a refinery outage, they get to raise the price.

Sorry our refineries are doing just fine, do you see any shortage of gas at the pump? Again it's not the refineries it our dependence on foreign oil. And sending 500+ billion to foreign countries to buy that oil and all the jobs that go with it. But you liberals don't care about jobs as oil is evil, nor do you care about sending 500+ billion a yr to countries to buy their oil. And worse you don't care that these countries control our economy as they control the price of oil. But hey this is all OK with you and your liberal friend.

Announcing we are going to drill in ANWAR wouldn't move the price of oil a nickel, there isn't that much oil in ANWAR. You did not read my post. I repeat, if we announced that we are opening up our own oil reserves such as ANWAR, offshore of our coasts, and others the price of oil would go down upon that announcement.

This country needs to be rebuilt, too much of it's infrastructure is designed to burn a lot of oil. We need to get over the fact that we aren't an oil rich nation, were are a user, not a supplier, and the thing that every user nation must do, is to tax oil heavily, to encourage alternatives. Of course that's a liberal answer that pushes the cost of goods higher and pushes companies offshore. Liberals just don't get it. Energy is a major cost of production and high energy cost kills an economy. Yeah a liberal idea is to tax oil heavily to kill the economy. Good one.

And it will require the government to lead, and to spend on infrastructure, or to be the big loser in global economics with the most energy inefficient infrastructure to go along with the most inefficient health care system. Obama can't lead anything he is a follower. And to your "spend on infrastructure" is nothing more than another stimulus package. And you want to tax oil heavily so that would drive a spike right in the heart of our economy. Do you not know that everyone is scared that these oil prices may take this country back into a recession and you want to tax oil heavily. Now I could say some things here, but I will hold my tongue.

[Peertantyb]

Why don't we drill in Anwar and find out how much oil is there? You're using talking points from the left.

The point is--this country will NEVER be completely energy independent--we will ALWAYS need oil. Wind and solar alone is not going to power this country.

Our electric utility companies are mostly oil--natural gas and coal fired. That's how the lights turn on across this country. This is how Obama works. Make it miserable for the American public--then subsidize the auto industry in his cash for clunkers program--with taxpayer dollars--and then find out that most of the new cars that were subsidized were manufactured by foreign auto makers--

Then the icing on the cake: Changing the electric grid. Experts in the field stated they needed 110 billion out of the so-called economic stimulus bill to complete it--and they only got 11 billion. Then we sent 20 billion dollars to China out of the stimulus bill so they could build wind turbines for us.

You voted for it--you got it.

I believe most all the oil fired electric plants have been converted to coal or natural gas. All this windmill and solar stuff is not cutting one drop of our oil consumption.

[italertb]

He could have not attacked libya... that is what is causing the biggest job the last month...

Another unsourced bit of wild speculation.

How, exactly, was America's participation in preventing a bloodbath in Libya supposed to have lost jobs in the United States?

This should be good...

[amehoubFomo]

You liberals are fixed in la la land, the only way to be more energy independent is "drill baby drill" but you liberals would rather send 500+ billion a yr to foreign to buy their oil and the jobs that go with it.

Windmills and solar do what? Produce electricity and what do power plants use to make electrical energy, coal and natural gas. So tell me how in the hell is windmills and solar going to reduce our dependence on oil?

How are you going to power our ships and boats, highway trucks, plains, trains, farm equipment, delivery trucks, cars, suv's, motorcycles, they burn oil, not windmills or solar.

Obama and the Dem's keep our economy at risk because they feel oil is evil and this windmill and solar is nothing but a big subsidy sham.

ahoy Forplay,

i agree that we disagree, yet i think ye mistake that 'tis only the liberals who be lookin' to the future.

i think yer errant in claimin' that all conservatives believe that only fossil fuels shall deliver us in the comin' years. many 'o us be lookin' to tomorrow, and we have hope that new technology shall free us from the thralldom 'o the kind 'o energy solutions ye champion.

- MeadHallPirate

[italertb]

Here's a wild idea, let's look at real data! (I can hear the conservatives muttering already. They know that facts tend to have a liberal bias.)

Here's data on US Outer Continental Shelf oil production. Copy into an Excel file and chart it. If you can find obvious evidence of a slowdown beginning on January, 2009, I can't. OCS oil is being produced at a higher rate than any time since 2005.

As for overall domestic oil production, if Obama "loaths" the oil industry as one of the conservative voices here claims, one should see that reflected in the data, no?

No.

US Oil Production:
2003: 2,073,453,000
2004: 1,983,302,000
2005: 1,890,106,000
2006: 1,862,259,000
2007: 1,848,450,000
2008: 1,811,817,000
2009: 1,956,596,000
2010: 2,011,856,000
Source

In fact, last year was the first year in over a decade in which imported oil accounted for less than half of what we consumed.

No wonder conservatives here almost never deal in facts and rely almost exclusively on rhetoric.

The facts just don't line up with the rhetoric.

[Shootohoist]

ahoy Forplay,

i agree that we disagree, yet i think ye mistake that 'tis only the liberals who be lookin' to the future.

i think yer errant in claimin' that all conservatives believe that only fossil fuels shall deliver us in the comin' years. many 'o us be lookin' to tomorrow, and we have hope that new technology shall free us from the thralldom 'o the kind 'o energy solutions ye champion.

- MeadHallPirate

One area of alternative fuels that has gained a lot of interest over the last year or two is algae biodiesel. This is probably because it will produce 10-30 times what the best oil producing crops in America will produce. Here are some of the gallon per acre figures in this chart (note that the gpa figure varies greatly depending on who you ask, where it is grown, how it is planted, the strain used, how many harvests per year, etc)....

Oil Crop Gallons of Oil per Acre

Soybeans 48, Rapeseed 127, Jatropha 435-2000, Algae 5000-15,000

Algae consumes carbon dioxide, thus reducing harmful greenhouse gases. Most algae farms are being built right next to coal fired electricity plants so they have a steady supply of CO2.
I don't know much about it, but those "carbon credits" are very valuable. Total estimated carbon credit trading this year is about $72 billion dollars. And is expected to reach $32 Trillion by 2020.
The byproduct left over after extracting the oil can be used in cattle feed, vitamins, pigments, cosmetics, etc.

Algae Biodiesel

[Shootohoist]

Here's a wild idea, let's look at real data! US Oil Production:

I have an idea. How about we use ALL the data? From your link.....

First, production levels actually have been quite stable over the eight-year period. Comparing 2009 and 2010 statistics, petroleum production only rose about 3 percent. And the level for 2010 is only 11 percent higher than for the lowest year in that eight-year period. So the increase the president is referring to is not particularly dramatic.

The second caveat is that the Energy Information Administration projects that production totals are poised to fall from their current levels over the next two years.

Domestic crude oil production, the agency says, is projected to decline by 110,000 barrels a day in 2011 and by an additional 130,000 barrels per day in 2012. The agency makes that projection based on expected production declines in Alaska due to maturing oil fields. Production in the Gulf of Mexico is also projected to decline. Both are partially offset by projected increases in the Lower 48 states, but on balance, EIA sees the numbers falling.



No wonder conservatives here almost never deal in facts and rely almost exclusively on rhetoric.
Is that right?

[Peertantyb]

ahoy Forplay,

i agree that we disagree, yet i think ye mistake that 'tis only the liberals who be lookin' to the future.

i think yer errant in claimin' that all conservatives believe that only fossil fuels shall deliver us in the comin' years. many 'o us be lookin' to tomorrow, and we have hope that new technology shall free us from the thralldom 'o the kind 'o energy solutions ye champion.

- MeadHallPirate

You see you get it wrong, I'm not against green, but until we get there we need oil, simple as that. All the green we have today is doing nothing to save our need for oil, that is a fact. Most all the power plants are fired by coal or natural gas, not oil. So while windmills and solar may be good to cut down on power plants they do nothing to help our oil consumption. In fact as our population grows so does our need for oil.

So for you liberals to think oil is evil, is as bad as it gets. It's our life blood to our economy and as it is now foreign countries control our economy by their price of it. We send 500+ billion to them to buy oil every yr and all the jobs that go with it. So while you liberal wait for the sun to power our ships, plains, trains, factories, heat our homes, power our highway truck etc etc etc our economy is tanking. We have not growth and as you can see the higher the price of oil is the worse our economy is.

So go ahead and think green all you want and oil is evil. But the facts are to rid ourselves of oil is hundreds of yrs down the road. I am all for green, but only for research, this subsidizing windmills and solar that can't compete with oil in price is insane. And when oil is so high that that makes green completive our economy will be in the deepest depression in US History. We need cheap energy to remain a economic power, and whiteout it we're finished.

Oh liberal Goober, he wants government to tax the hell out of oil, you liberals hate oil, and it's evil, and people get rich off oil. Liberals can't stand that.

[Peertantyb]

One area of alternative fuels that has gained a lot of interest over the last year or two is algae biodiesel. This is probably because it will produce 10-30 times what the best oil producing crops in America will produce. Here are some of the gallon per acre figures in this chart (note that the gpa figure varies greatly depending on who you ask, where it is grown, how it is planted, the strain used, how many harvests per year, etc)....

Oil Crop Gallons of Oil per Acre

Soybeans 48, Rapeseed 127, Jatropha 435-2000, Algae 5000-15,000

Algae consumes carbon dioxide, thus reducing harmful greenhouse gases. Most algae farms are being built right next to coal fired electricity plants so they have a steady supply of CO2.
I don't know much about it, but those "carbon credits" are very valuable. Total estimated carbon credit trading this year is about $72 billion dollars. And is expected to reach $32 Trillion by 2020.
The byproduct left over after extracting the oil can be used in cattle feed, vitamins, pigments, cosmetics, etc.

Algae Biodiesel

This is a totally unproven technology, it has a lot of problems to overcome and right now it's a dream. If it had any real promise it would be plastered in every liberal paper and on the news 24/7. Headlines like "We're Saved" "Algae Farms are going to drive down the price of oil to 30 cents a gallon" It's just a dream at the moment with very little promise.

[moohassinny]

I agree, an unproven technology. The only proven tech is the one we are running out of, or the one that causes too much pollution. All technologies have to be used and exploited It does not matter how much oil we produce, it all goes on the international market! That's where we buy it! The only way out is to start using multiple forms of energy, transitioning from oil/coal to whatever, they all work to an extent. Yes, it will cost money up front, but it will make us more secure and not have to intervene in the ME or anywhere else as a matter of nat'nl Security. This is a no brainer, you'd think the GOP could get behind it.

[amehoubFomo]

One area of alternative fuels that has gained a lot of interest over the last year or two is algae biodiesel. This is probably because it will produce 10-30 times what the best oil producing crops in America will produce. Here are some of the gallon per acre figures in this chart (note that the gpa figure varies greatly depending on who you ask, where it is grown, how it is planted, the strain used, how many harvests per year, etc)....

Oil Crop Gallons of Oil per Acre

Soybeans 48, Rapeseed 127, Jatropha 435-2000, Algae 5000-15,000

Algae consumes carbon dioxide, thus reducing harmful greenhouse gases. Most algae farms are being built right next to coal fired electricity plants so they have a steady supply of CO2.
I don't know much about it, but those "carbon credits" are very valuable. Total estimated carbon credit trading this year is about $72 billion dollars. And is expected to reach $32 Trillion by 2020.
The byproduct left over after extracting the oil can be used in cattle feed, vitamins, pigments, cosmetics, etc.

Algae Biodiesel

ahoy Bearman,

aye, i read about this also...indeed!

imma not against fossil fuels tidin' us o'er, but i still think that this be a wonderful opportunity fer other options to come to the fore.

someday, we'll no doubt run outta the easily accessable fossil fuels, or the cost to our land will be too great....the future be in alternative fuels, and i do think it would be a mighty thing if our nation was at the forefront 'o such tech.

*cheers*

- MeadHallPirate

[amehoubFomo]

You see you get it wrong, I'm not against green, but until we get there we need oil, simple as that. All the green we have today is doing nothing to save our need for oil, that is a fact. Most all the power plants are fired by coal or natural gas, not oil. So while windmills and solar may be good to cut down on power plants they do nothing to help our oil consumption. In fact as our population grows so does our need for oil.

So for you liberals to think oil is evil, is as bad as it gets.

ahoy Forplay!

i just stopped ye right there, fer thar be no need to copy paste the rest 'o yer boilerplate rant to further yer point.

"lib this" and "lib that"...ye have quite a routine goin', sonny.

*wags his finger*

i agree that fossil fuels shall tide us o'er to the future, fer that be our only option. i just see this as a marvelous opportunity to sieze the lead fer the reality 'o tomorrow.

*shrugs*

- MeadHallPirate

[Noilemaillilm]

Sorry our refineries are doing just fine, do you see any shortage of gas at the pump? Again it's not the refineries it our dependence on foreign oil. And sending 500+ billion to foreign countries to buy that oil and all the jobs that go with it. But you liberals don't care about jobs as oil is evil, nor do you care about sending 500+ billion a yr to countries to buy their oil. And worse you don't care that these countries control our economy as they control the price of oil. But hey this is all OK with you and your liberal friend.



You did not read my post. I repeat, if we announced that we are opening up our own oil reserves such as ANWAR, offshore of our coasts, and others the price of oil would go down upon that announcement.



Of course that's a liberal answer that pushes the cost of goods higher and pushes companies offshore. Liberals just don't get it. Energy is a major cost of production and high energy cost kills an economy. Yeah a liberal idea is to tax oil heavily to kill the economy. Good one.



Obama can't lead anything he is a follower. And to your "spend on infrastructure" is nothing more than another stimulus package. And you want to tax oil heavily so that would drive a spike right in the heart of our economy. Do you not know that everyone is scared that these oil prices may take this country back into a recession and you want to tax oil heavily. Now I could say some things here, but I will hold my tongue.

OK, I get it, your divorce from reality went through a long time ago, and you haven't had any contact in years.

You haven't noticed oil companies making the largest profits that any company ever made in history, why would you, you pontificate about the economy, you don't follow it. And "largest profits in history" would only ring a bell if you had perhaps taken a course in economics or free market theory, and you are "education free" when it comes to that stuff.

Did you know, (not fair, I know you don't have a clue), that when Jimmy Carter left office, the programs in place meant that the US would never import more than 3 million barrels a day of foreign petroleum, oil imports were going down, Reagan changed all that, did you know that?

[Nmoitmzr]

OK, I get it, your divorce from reality went through a long time ago, and you haven't had any contact in years.

You haven't noticed oil companies making the largest profits that any company ever made in history, why would you, you pontificate about the economy, you don't follow it. And "largest profits in history" would only ring a bell if you had perhaps taken a course in economics or free market theory, and you are "education free" when it comes to that stuff.

Did you know, (not fair, I know you don't have a clue), that when Jimmy Carter left office, the programs in place meant that the US would never import more than 3 million barrels a day of foreign petroleum, oil imports were going down, Reagan changed all that, did you know that?

I believe the wealthest corporation in America today--is the pharmacutical industry.

Jimmy Carter-- wouldn't import more than 3 million per day--because Iran cut him off--during the Iranian crisis. You obviously weren't born then or were in diapers--and that's when we had blocks long waits to get gasoline. I remember that very well.

So yes Reagan opened it up--so you could actually drive in and get gas without waiting in line for 1-1/2 hours which was typical during Jimmy's final year in office.

[pKgGpUlF]

So, what are the action items that the President can take?

Domestic production? Up.

Refinery? Nobody's asking to build one.

If it were President McCain, Libya still would have happened, and likely Iran, too.

Easy to naysay, hard to come up with real solutions.

[TravelMan]

As I mentioned, more drilling and refining would help keep oil prices lower over the long term, but again, getting a new refinery running at full capacity would require a lead time of several years.

Because of the aforementioned refineries we already have that are at basically 100% capacity, no meaningful difference can be made with regard to altering our available oil supply within anything less than even the total possible years Obama could remain in office.

I can agree with CSA that not invading Libya might have helped, but then again, a large part of what drives oil prices isn't war but rather speculation.

I suppose Obama could opt to heavily regulate speculation, but I know you guys wouldn't support that.

"Speculation", as yo call it, is a vital part of the market. It is nothing more than market participants using incomplete information to make future predictions about the market, and then acting accordingly.

No, this "guy wouldn't support" price controls; they have a terrible track record.

[TravelMan]

ahoy Forplay,

i agree that we disagree, yet i think ye mistake that 'tis only the liberals who be lookin' to the future.

i think yer errant in claimin' that all conservatives believe that only fossil fuels shall deliver us in the comin' years. many 'o us be lookin' to tomorrow, and we have hope that new technology shall free us from the thralldom 'o the kind 'o energy solutions ye champion.

- MeadHallPirate

Ahoy my favorite Pirate!

Indeed, necessity is the mother of invention, and $4/gallon at the pump might just be what spurs some new technology.

[medio]

[quote]After spending trillions to try and get us out of a recession causing this cool jobless recovery we have, it seems we are headed rigth back into one.



News Headlines -

[ljq0AYOV]

It is worth noting, however, that Obama has little to no control over gas prices.

Then it's equally worth noting that libs lost their fucking minds when gas prices skyrocketed while Bush was in office...

[neirty]

I suppose this is starting to look a little bit like the Carter era.

It is worth noting, however, that Obama has little to no control over gas prices. The best that I guess we could do would involve more drilling and refining, but our current refineries are already operating at about peak capacity, and getting a new refinery up and running takes several years.

I disagree.

If Bo opens up the Gulf and elsewhere to drilling--start issuing permits to Oil Companies other than that Brazilian company-- oil prices will immediately
begin to drop as speculaters see a greater supply and backup in the future.

But idiot Obama today again said the answer to high gasoline prices is renewable energy. Nobody believes that.
This issue alone will take him down in 2012.