Florida pastor burns Koran - 11 dead
 

Well, here we go.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/02/wo...ghanistan.html

I understand that this dipshit has the right to burn Korans.
I understand that the Afghan reaction is not "American in nature", but everyone knew this would happen.

Terry Jones is definitely an idiot, but to kill people over a burned book demonstrates serious insanity on the part of the Muslims involved.

I hate to say it, but burning more Korans might help us figure out which Muslims are crazy and which aren't.

Yay. Religious assholes making the non-asshole majority look bad.

We need to pull out of Afghanistan right now, and let those stupid fuckers go nuts.

Sooner or later they will kill themselves...

Yeah, thanks Jones you asshole for doing this whilst troops are deployed in Muslim nations because you're such as 'Christian,' as well as these types of haters within the much larger Muslim community who always look for an excuse to bully, abuse, maim and kill people and claim "it's for God/God's will" etc. There's always that wing of Kool Aid hateful religious people that are always looking for an excuse to start shit where everyone has to duck or have a loved one call the undertaker. I just wish they'd buy themselves a personal battlefield and slay themselves alone 'for God' so the rest of society can go and live in peace.

Amen. http://www.uspoliticsonline.net/images/smilies/wink.gif I want this taken in context given not all religious people do bad things with it as their personal excuse and/or delusion and some do good with it, but I really get Bill Maher's point as to the dangers that religion can pose given the types of beholders out there:

YouTube - Religulous - Ending Scene

While I agree with you in general, Afghans are going to have to evolve some to progress as a country.

Some of that process involves getting used to being offended.

If all it takes is one book burning to set some people off, that's a sign that various other things could do the same. So, again, more offenses might help us to determine where the problem areas of Afghanistan are in terms of general insanity.

Most Muslims are sane people who might get upset by Koran burnings, but the minority of them that flip out over it need to be identified and dealt with.

Yep - and you'll note that I wasn't condemning one particular side or another...

Absolutely no argument there. I have zero tolerance for Islamic fundamentalism with any bully edge or worse.

But note that Jones is also being cute with this: he's one of those hate filled Rapture types who would like to see this fight and knew damn well that by doing so this could help do it given he knew there are plenty eagre 'volunteers' within the billion-plus Muslim community who are as fanatical and violent-prone as he is.

I make a distinction between what Jones did as opposed to, say, what the cartoon drawers did. It's about intent. Jones' intent was to start this shit.

Like hate filled Muslim fanatics, he's a hate filled Christian one:

Dove World Outreach Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They're the same insofar as hating gays (he and his church have protested with the Phelps' Westboro Baptist Church), etc, but they hate each other too. Equal opportunity haters to be frank, and that's all they wish to inflict on others.

I agree.

To be fair, I think perhaps the most evenhanded approach would involve burning all symbols people regard holy, videotaping it, and putting it on youtube.

Any religious person that kills over desecration of a book or symbol should be committed or imprisoned.

Any patriotic person that kills over desecration of a flag or national symbol should receive the same.

The sooner we figure out who the crazies are among us, the better off the rational rest of us are.

EDIT: To clarify, when I say "all", I mean one of each, not all symbols that are in existence.

I understand this dipshit has the right to burn Korans.

I understand that the Afghan reaction is indicative of a militant, intolerant religion and is the most dangerous religion in the World. These people are living in 800 A.D.

Christianity and Judaism were once just like this a thousand years ago. Most of the M.E. never tempered their religion as was done with Christianity and Judaism.

A thousand years ago is being extra charitable. It got gradually better at a snail's pace with the rise of the Enlightenment and took quite awhile in the West to be sufficiently overcome, even until recent times and is still not perfect (Northern Ireland, the former Yugoslavia region, etc). And that's only on the mega-violence part. Many Christians used the Bible to justify slavery, keeping women like male chattel, etc, for a very long time (heck, women only got the right to vote in the last century in the US). As for violence against Jews, religious hates worked in tandem with social hates that contributed to the Holocaust (not just Germans but also those that collaborated with it, chose to let it happen, etc). Some Christians outside the West can still be fanatically violent such as in Africa, e.g. the Ugandan "kill the gays" bill or being equally up for fights with Muslims, etc, and there are still the types who use Christianity to hate gays or be troglodytes on other issues.

That said, the Muslim world needs more progress in this aspect to catch up to where the West has gotten. Some progress is being made, but as one can tell, it can take a very long time with a very bumpy ride just like it did in the West.

This is stupid.

I truely believe the key for Afganistan is cooperation primarily among 'Muslim' countries to nation-build Afganistan. oh wait, other Muslims are busy with their own dictators.

Like how Goober her blame Jones for teh actions of some terrorists.

“We must hold these countries and people accountable for what they have done as well as for any excuses they may use to promote their terrorist activities,” he said in a statement. “Islam is not a religion of peace. It is time that we call these people to accountability.”

Last year, even though Mr. Jones called off his burning of the Koran, a subsequent wave of protests at NATO facilities in Afghanistan led to at least five deaths. In several of those episodes, Taliban agitators played a role; they were said to have spread rumors that the Koran burning had taken place. Goober are you the type that blames the rape women for being raped too because he provoked the rapist with sexy clothes, or would you say the rapist was bad?

I can see it now, Officer goober ms jpones here was raped, and you saying ohh well look at that dress she knew this would happen.. damn macy's!!!

(bolding added)

That's true, and it's a good thing IMO seeing Muslims stand up to them and even call upon others to help. Our rights, happiness, peace and progress is best secured by a collective effort for our collective benefit.

Seriously, we could use your help--even if it's just raising the voices against thugs wrapping themselves in religion--Muslim or non-Muslim--as they do military uniforms and we all benefit from it. It's in our collective benefit to defeat that.

I'm not saying good people of good will don't already do that because a great number do so...but if that message is carried on the streets, the Internet, schools, mosques, cable television like Al Jazeera and Al-Arabiya, etc--and help stick up for non-Muslims of good will are attempting to likewise do good things for Muslims and/or non-Muslims alike--it really helps. To me, it's not a Muslim versus non-Muslim thing...it's a good versus evil thing and the former should be sought over the latter.

Yes 1000 years would be actually inaccurate. Just finished reading about the conquest of the Aztecs and the Christian Spaniards were as ghastly as the religious Aztecs. So much evil done in the name of God. But the radical Muslims today are closer to the Spaniards of 1521 than any Christian group I know of today. I find it hard to equate the Christian loony birds with radical Islam. But I never understood how the Prots and Catholics could kill and terrorize either. They could draw a truce, but I cannot envision radical Islam ever drawing a truce with the western satanic infidels. They would have to change core beliefs, and that seems highly unlikely.

Agreed. But I believe its more complicated than this. I, for example, participate in discussions with 'extremists' on and off line. Most of us do here and its even hard to find an 'extremist' to talk to these days. But they would always label you as "regime loyalist". They would ask, "How can you be a good 'Muslim' and not direct your attacks to the 'dictator' who is rulling you?". So I believe the best way to eleminate 'extremists' influence is to take the initiative and responsibilty of reforming the regime from the extremists. In this way, the average citizen would be able to use legitimate political tools in his gov't to, for example, cooperate with other nations to build Afganistan or fight terrorism.

What a bunch of retards. Well, I hope Jones is happy with himself. Fucktard didn't listen to those who warned him.

But the response is even worse. It's a bunch of fucktards making it worse for everybody else.

Sorry for the language, but I find both actions entirely deplorable, but I find killing somebody over a book burning entirely insane.

I predict this will only inflame even more Christian protest whenever Muslims will want to build anything, such as a community center. Of course people will respond to those actions with accusations of Islamophobia.

This is just crap situation all the way around.

Some people just can't help themselves.

Blunt, but definitely a statement of reality.

But then, that's not really the circumstance here, is it? No one is blaming the victims (the UN workers in Afghanistan). We're condemning the person who provoked their murders.

Tell me, in your scenario, what judgement would you lay on a person who goaded the rapists into action? Certainly he's not as "guilty" as those who committed the acts, but do you really think Jones has no responsibility in the matter?