[8cyVn4RJ]

I dont think Obama ordered this and I dont think bush ordered people to pose with prisoners in abu gharib.. the fact is I am consistant on both issues...

libersla re'nt.

No, I don't think anyone ordered people to pose with prisoners in Abu Gharib - I think that was a big fuckup. The dogs and posing and nakedness and all that was part of the interrogation program. The pictures was people who didn't have a lot of information, nor a whole lot to do, with cameras.

People take pictures of really, really stupid things. Now that we don't even have to worry about film? Much worse.

[Centurnion]

I may have missed it, but I didn't see a date when these photos were taken.

[Butiqueso]

Well, this thoroughly unprofessional behavior makes a strong case for gutting the Pentagon budget, after all, why waste all this money to fund murder rape and mayhem by the sick individuals, who are attracted to the military, the way the priesthood attracts pedophiles.

There is truth in what you say in regards to the type of folks that at times the military attract. We see the exact same thing in law enforcement. And that is why I am a proponent for a military draft and a draft for law enforcement.


We are also submitting our fighting men to something that is new. We used to never keep sending the same guys back to Viet Nam. You survived your tour, and you went home. I never knew but of a couple guys that went back, but it was due to them volunteering for that duty. And both were a bit off in the noggin, IMO.

Our military is too small, period. But that's the modern armed services, where mostly the folks trying to get a leg up in life, and a few sociopaths, mostly comprise the military. A perfect demographic to send to do the dying for us. The middle class and upper class could not be happier. And don't suffer much in these wars we get ourselves into, Hell, just go shopping! I expect Pres. Obama to tell us that next.

[MariaBeautys]

In the mind of liberals, as long as they have "their man" at the helm they are no longer opposed to the things that made Bush so evil. It's just partisan double standards at work.

Excuse my French BUT WTF do you expect from guys we have had in active training for years to kill whom ever is determined the enemy at any given moment ? Deploy re-deploy etc. Our troops are "trained" to kill people dispassionately as all troops are. Perhaps some of the victims shot the finger to our troops and this was the finger they removed.

Maybe some of our guys said to themselves: "You want a taste of what war does to a guy while you sit on your ass making money ? JUST WATCH Pussies !!!

Should they worry about capturing the hearts and minds ? You have to be kidding if you think they do.

Go get 'em tigers !

Read how Count Dracula turned back an invading army by decapitating and impaling thousands and hanging them from the trees in sight of the invaders who promptly turned around and went home.

Many seem anxious to have war Maybe it's time to have the big one and involve each and every human on the face of the earth.

[ecosportpol_ru]

These unfortunate incidents, if true, should be arguments for withdrawing from Afghanistan, not manipulated for party politics. Ensure that the Taliban doesn't allow al Qaeda into Afghanistan again, and then get out.

This won't stop the tension and resulting violence that exists between traditional westerners and Muslim immigrants in western countries, but it will go a long ways in improving our security.

[Ygd2qr8k]

There's stupid

There's really stupid

There's Miss South Carolina stupid



Then there's the suggestion that Obama ordered the mutilation of bodies of civilians and for soldiers to take their pictures with them.

pram, can you get me a date,do ya have a number---she looks teachable to me.

[Nikitka]

I got some free oil for ya - just pulled 5 quarts out of my truck!





There are always loons - on both sides. Now, step back just a bit - is it a bit more plausible that Mr. Cheney may have said to the CIA - "look, you've got to get more out of those fucks, do what you need to do - use what you know against them, but don't leave marks, and don't kill them" than it is that Mr. Obama said, "take some civilians, kill 'em, mutilate them, and take pictures of yourself with them?"

Just sayin'

You say what I posted was "there's stupid" now you say it is a bit more plausible that Mr. Chaney may have said to the CIA - "look, you've got to get more out of these fucks. etc" Now there's stupid, really stupid, it's a hell of lot more plausible that Obama with his killing drones and killing civilians and take no prisoner approach to having people murder and mutilate corpses. The picture thing I admit was dumb just like the prison pictures.

See you're still spinning the Bush BS but now it's Obama the Anointed One who just started a 3rd war and has no end game. In fact he has no idea what the hell he's doing or what he's going to do.

Sorry but Obama is the commander in chief and once again he is showing no leadership or resolve or even has a plan. He says he's going to turn our military to another country to take the lead, WHO. He has no clue who that is. Maybe you know? Oh and it's supposed to happen in a couple of days.

[jamisi]

In the mind of liberals, as long as they have "their man" at the helm they are no longer opposed to the things that made Bush so evil. It's just partisan double standards at work.

Yeah, like you'd never see someone like Dennis Kucinich from the liberal base go after his own guy and talk of things like impeachment....

[Jourgenz]

Unfortunately for the question laid out here by the OP, there was the possibility that the systemic actions at Abu Ghraib were ordered by higher-ups. Weather it was from Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld or others was the clouded question but well within the realm of possibility(...

the realm of possibility in what universe????

Abu Grahib was about leftist asshole prison guards doing what leftist assholes all wish they could do.

All leftists are sadistic totalitarian bastards.

[8cyVn4RJ]

You say what I posted was "there's stupid" now you say it is a bit more plausible that Mr. Chaney may have said to the CIA - "look, you've got to get more out of these fucks. etc" Now there's stupid, really stupid, it's a hell of lot more plausible that Obama with his killing drones and killing civilians and take no prisoner approach to having people murder and mutilate corpses. The picture thing I admit was dumb just like the prison pictures.

See you're still spinning the Bush BS but now it's Obama the Anointed One who just started a 3rd war and has no end game. In fact he has no idea what the hell he's doing or what he's going to do.

Sorry but Obama is the commander in chief and once again he is showing no leadership or resolve or even has a plan. He says he's going to turn our military to another country to take the lead, WHO. He has no clue who that is. Maybe you know? Oh and it's supposed to happen in a couple of days.

You're rambling about how much you hate Obama, but you've got no exit strategy. It all kind of runs together after a while.

I get it. You hate Obama. Good for you.

[POMAH_K]

Excuse my French BUT WTF do you expect from guys we have had in active training for years to kill whom ever is determined the enemy at any given moment ? Deploy re-deploy etc. Our troops are "trained" to kill people dispassionately as all troops are. Perhaps some of the victims shot the finger to our troops and this was the finger they removed.

Maybe some of our guys said to themselves: "You want a taste of what war does to a guy while you sit on your ass making money ? JUST WATCH Pussies !!!

Should they worry about capturing the hearts and minds ? You have to be kidding if you think they do.

Go get 'em tigers !

Read how Count Dracula turned back an invading army by decapitating and impaling thousands and hanging them from the trees in sight of the invaders who promptly turned around and went home.

Many seem anxious to have war Maybe it's time to have the big one and involve each and every human on the face of the earth.

I don't know about your military training but mine never involved a "green light" for indiscriminate killing.

Here's the deal, one of the symptoms of PTSD is that you may very well stop seeing others as human. It's a defense mechanism. When the brain has trouble processing abominable things it quite often simply shuts off that function. Some people have this symptom to a greater degree than others and shit like posing with bodies, taking "trophies", etc. become the result. It's an ugly part of life but it happens.

Based on the tiny bit of information we have on this issue I would certainly suggest that these young men be yanked out of combat and, after a court martial, be given treatment in confinement. This, from the facts presented, was probably murder under Article 118(3) of the UCMJ and should be punished as such. I couldn't say, based on what I have read, whether the crime rises to the level where capital punishment could be considered.

[MrGunjMan_]

I don't know about your military training but mine never involved a "green light" for indiscriminate killing.

Here's the deal, one of the symptoms of PTSD is that you may very well stop seeing others as human. It's a defense mechanism. When the brain has trouble processing abominable things it quite often simply shuts off that function. Some people have this symptom to a greater degree than others and shit like posing with bodies, taking "trophies", etc. become the result. It's an ugly part of life but it happens.

Based on the tiny bit of information we have on this issue I would certainly suggest that these young men be yanked out of combat and, after a court martial, be given treatment in confinement. This, from the facts presented, was probably murder under Article 118(3) of the UCMJ and should be punished as such. I couldn't say, based on what I have read, whether the crime rises to the level where capital punishment could be considered.

Well said. We send our young to live through gruesome sights and require them to do terrible things to other beings, and then then expect them to always act rationally. It just isn't always possible. I'd personally rather see a mental evaluation before any court martial, so that they might be judged more fairly.

This cannot be compared to Abu Ghraib, as those were MPs that had not been subjected to wars stresses nor PTSD conditions.

[Ygd2qr8k]

If there is evidence that this was used as a systematic interrogation of technique, and that this was ordered from above, then the chain of command that this came from should be followed, as high as it goes - even if that means all the way to the very top. That's all that was asked during the Abu Grahib scandal during the Bush years - follow it to the top - who authorized/ordered the techniques?
Of course, it's really hard to interrogate a corpse....

Yes follow it to the top.
We all know Obama was not involved. He does not get involved in military matters, knows NOTHING about the millitary, except for his phoney concern for the troops
(thoughts and prayers BS,, altho BO cares only about BO and that stinks!!). And he has a soft spot for
corpsman. And he has NO BALL. No game: Barkley says BO's hoops is over-rated: "he always moves to the left",, as in politics!

Now Bush, a whole different story. He obviously was directly involved in the Abu Ghraib stuff- hell he ordered it done!

[Butiqueso]

Read this an tell me this does not have Obama written all over it. Obama is the commander in chief and for him to allow such and or gave the go ahead for such murder and mutilation needs to be fully investigated.

These people are under Obama's command, and is fully responsible for their actions

US Army 'kill team' in Afghanistan posed for photos of murdered civilians | World news | The Guardian

No, I can't see Obama's name anywhere on these atrocities. If you do, go get your eyes checked as you need some thick glasses.

But then I wasn't stupid enough to blame Pres. Bush for those things that Americans did to the prisoners in Iraq. I blame that on their commander, and themselves, and not the CIC. I know it's a novel idea in these uber partisan era we have been in for way too long.

[ReggieRed]

the realm of possibility in what universe????

Abu Grahib was about leftist asshole prison guards doing what leftist assholes all wish they could do.

All leftists are sadistic totalitarian bastards.

You can't see a scenario where Rummy told someone to tell someone to set up the prison, and get every last piece of info from whoever is in it and they have to sick the dogs on them then so be it?

That's not too far fetched. Certainly not in the same league as this notion that Obama somehow issues orders for soldiers to pose with corpses.

[LarryRda]

You can't see a scenario where Rummy told someone to tell someone to set up the prison, and get every last piece of info from whoever is in it and they have to sick the dogs on them then so be it?

That's not too far fetched. Certainly not in the same league as this notion that Obama somehow issues orders for soldiers to pose with corpses.

So you're good with how Obusha is handling Gitmo? So am I!

[MrGunjMan_]

You can't see a scenario where Rummy told someone to tell someone to set up the prison, and get every last piece of info from whoever is in it and they have to sick the dogs on them then so be it?

That's not too far fetched. Certainly not in the same league as this notion that Obama somehow issues orders for soldiers to pose with corpses.

From "W" on down, all possible means of extraordinary interrogation was searched for, and "W" appointed Chu to find laws to support it. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Libby, etc. all endorsed it, and shit always flows downhill in the military. Seeing extraordinary interrogation is the same thing as PTST, it renders the senses to become more and more conditioned that the subject isn't human and doesn't deserve being treated as such.

Those were the conditions presented to the military in Abu Ghraid, and they reacted accordingly. Even McCain changed his tune when running for election, to cater to the far-right that enjoyed seeing accused people being treated worse than we treat game animals here.

Completely different ideals are being presented by President Obama than the "W" gang ever presented to the military. It's just a righties wet dream to find anything they can whine about.

[Adiamant]

Have these American soldiers been ID'd yet?

If not, how can we be sure that these aren't just some rogue people posing with dead people in American uniforms?

Kramer