[spravka.ua]

. . . When you've got hundreds of people showing up to block out the bullshit caused by 6 or 8 radicals it sends a message of how much ordinary Americans actually appreciate the sacrifices our troops are making. . . . .

Sure they do. Just to note the limitlessness of no low they won't go, the Westboro pickets plenty of non-military funerals too.

Whilst I find all their picketing to be manifestly unreasonable and vile, the most shameless and groundless of them all that I recall was their intention to picket the funerals of the Amish primary school girls who were injured or murdered by a paedophile who seized their school and barricaded them inside with him so he could molest, sodomise and rape them until his planned mass murder/suicide ending.

. . .
COLMES: Did they deserve to die?
PHELPS-ROPER: They did deserve to die.
COLMES: How you can possibly make a statement like that?
PHELPS-ROPER: Because that's exactly what happened, and it happened at the hand of the lord your God.
COLMES: How can you possibly say that — how can you possibly say that young girls who have done nothing wrong, who are innocent, who are just a few years old, who have never sinned, who have never done anything, deserve to die? How could you possibly make a statement like that?
PHELPS-ROPER: You told me that you serve the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who says that when Adam sinned all sinned. There are no innocent human beings. And the parents...

. . .

HANNITY: What about the living families that lost their daughter?
PHELPS-ROPER: They did that to themselves.
. . . Radical Westboro Baptist Church Claims Amish Community Was Punished by an Angry God - Hannity - FOXNews.com

YouTube - Shirley phelps thinks that the amish girls deserved to die

Talk radio host Mike Gallagher made a deal with them to offer 1 hour of his airtime to them if they didn't picket the funeral, which was accepted.

ANTI-GAY KANSAS CHURCH CANCELS PROTESTS AT FUNERALS FOR SLAIN AMISH GIRLS
Wednesday, October 04, 2006
By Sara Bonisteel

Shirley Phelps-Roper, the daughter of church's pastor, told FOXNews.com the group canceled the protests in exchange for an hour of radio time Thursday on syndicated talk-show host Mike Gallagher's radio program.

"We're not going to any of the Amish funerals — that's the agreement we're making — that we won't go to any of them," Phelps-Roper told FOXNews.com.

On Tuesday, the church posted a flyer touting the demonstrations in response to the attendance of Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell, who has spoken out against the church publicly. Both Amish and non-Amish residents of Lancaster County — where the shooting took place — have vowed to not allow any protesters anywhere near the funeral services; Rendell called the church members "insane."

Phelps-Roper, daughter of Rev. Fred Phelps, said the church had planned to cancel the protests if given media time on radio and television as a platform to espouse Westboro's beliefs.

Gallagher said that church officials would have to sign a document making them liable for the airtime if they broke their promise not to demonstrate.
"It's awful for me to give up an hour of my radio show ... but I think it’s worth the sacrifice to keep them away," Gallagher said.

. . . Anti-Gay Kansas Church Cancels Protests at Funerals for Slain Amish Girls - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com

I genuinely believe that had they shown up to picket those funerals with their standard cruelties, they would have been attacked or killed as open targets within the Lancaster County vicinity by the non-Amish there. I think Westboro knew that too, and hence why they took Gallagher's offer given they would have gotten far more attention by picketing such a set of funerals with the international attention being paid to them in sorrow.

[Marinausa]

I'm not sure how I feel about this decision. I'm curious to see how others veiw it.

-------------------------------------------

Westboro Funeral Pickets Are Protected Speech, High Court Rules

....

The Supreme Court, in an 8-1 decision, ruled Wednesday that members of the renegade Westboro Baptist Church have a constitutionally protected right to protest military funerals, though their demonstrations are widely despised and deplored.........

Westboro Funeral Pickets Are Protected Speech, High Court Rules - FoxNews.com


-------------------------------------------

On one hand these people sicken me.

They make Christianity look pretty ..... fill in the blank.

On the other hand, if we say these people have no right to do this what kind of precedent does that set for future issues/rulings ?

You're not sure how you feel about freedom of speech?

Its sad this issue is even a goddamn debate er "news."

[JMLot]

I hate to say it, because I cannot stand what these people are doing with their constitutional right, but the courts handled this correctly for now. As much as I hate the message and the delivery they have a constitutional right to do what they do.

That being said, the rest of us have every right to form a "respect" human wall of people to shield these families the best we can. Doing all we can to block these idiots and their message of hate from these families dealing with such a loss. To those that already do this for the families, they have my support.

[Marinausa]

I dont agree with the assholes in Madison, however I will defend their RIGHT to protest all day and I feel no pain in doing so.

I dont agree with the WBBC, but they have rights as well.

We live in America NOT Cuba..

[pupyississido]

But so what? What if it were you who were uncommon? You dont think you personally should have the right to express an opinion that others dont like?

I think there should be consequences associated with freedom of speech. When someone purposely makes deadly, inflammatory comments or hate based demonstration or speech, there should be consequences.

Some words pronounced at some times (like hate words at the funeral of fallen soldiers, or hate words at the funeral of slain little girls) are as cruel and uncalled for as a physical assault on the parents of those victims, maybe even worse, as they never go away.

So, that sort of hateful, destructive speech should have the same consequences as (at least) a mild physical assault on the person.

[pupyississido]

I haven't spent hundreds of hours doing it, but I've spent a few.

I think that in this respect the WBC actually provides a service to the families of our fallen servicemen and women.

When you've got hundreds of people showing up to block out the bullshit caused by 6 or 8 radicals it sends a message of how much ordinary Americans actually appreciate the sacrifices our troops are making.

If there were no radical yahoos playing the role WBC plays there would be no real need for hundreds of ordinary Americans to show up to those kids' funerals and wave flags and just generally show support.

It sucks that there's a need, but it's gratifying to see how overwelmingly the need is being filled - and I think the parents and loved ones of our troops see that.

I agree that the only good thing that comes out of that vitriolic hate and craziness is the reaction of reasonable people of good will, like you, and like anyone who has had the opportunity and has taken that opportunity to block those dangerous crazies from fully completing their goal.

I am glad that the parents of those soldiers had the support of so many people against the stupidity and hate of so few. I certainly would be there to express my support of the family and my anger at the cruel insensitivity of Phelphs and his "troops" at the first occasion that presents itself in the proximity of where I live.

[Gedominew]

I dont agree with the assholes in Madison, however I will defend their RIGHT to protest all day and I feel no pain in doing so.

I dont agree with the WBBC, but they have rights as well.

We live in America NOT Cuba..

See? That's what's great about this country. If we look long enough and hard enough, people who are completely at odds with each other can find common ground and agreement.

[JMLot]

I think there should be consequences associated with freedom of speech. When someone purposely makes deadly, inflammatory comments or hate based demonstration or speech, there should be consequences.

Some words pronounced at some times (like hate words at the funeral of fallen soldiers, or hate words at the funeral of slain little girls) are as cruel and uncalled for as a physical assault on the parents of those victims, maybe even worse, as they never go away.

So, that sort of hateful, destructive speech should have the same consequences as (at least) a mild physical assault on the person.

Well, I guess technically there is a consequence for these people. They anger enough of the rest of us to form, show up, and do the best we can to support the families. There seems to be at least more than one group willing and able to show up and do what they can to shield the families from these guys. Granted it is not everything you are hinting at, but it is something in showing support for our fallen troops and their families. I hate that it has come to this and agree with you that this level of hate is similar to physical or emotional assault, but this is the best we can do and is somewhat a price we pay for our freedoms. I may hate what this group does with their right but I support the rights we have which makes way for people to push those limits, for lack of a better word. (Like what this group is doing.)

[Marinausa]

I think there should be consequences associated with freedom of speech. When someone purposely makes deadly, inflammatory comments or hate based demonstration or speech, there should be consequences.

Some words pronounced at some times (like hate words at the funeral of fallen soldiers, or hate words at the funeral of slain little girls) are as cruel and uncalled for as a physical assault on the parents of those victims, maybe even worse, as they never go away.

So, that sort of hateful, destructive speech should have the same consequences as (at least) a mild physical assault on the person.

God forbid anyone call you a name. Thats just not nice!!! we should have laws against being insulted, despite how objective insults are.

If you want real liberty then you have to be prepared to take the sour with the sweet.

If you're being sarcastic then you know, but if you're serious then you're the biggest assclown tyrant I've had the opportunity to read. I know the libtool Europeans get down with the authoritarian "liberalism" er Marxism but that shit is illegal here.

[ditpiler]

Yes, so Phelps and his piece of shit mongrel cult have the right to protest as they do.

I'd like to see someone fall asleep at the wheel of their Suburban as they're driving by a Phelps protest and careen through the Phelps clan. That way, no one's rights are violated, and it's all a tragic accident...

[Marinausa]

I agree that the only good thing that comes out of that vitriolic hate and craziness is the reaction of reasonable people of good will, like you, and like anyone who has had the opportunity and has taken that opportunity to block those dangerous crazies from fully completing their goal.

I am glad that the parents of those soldiers had the support of so many people against the stupidity and hate of so few. I certainly would be there to express my support of the family and my anger at the cruel insensitivity of Phelphs and his "troops" at the first occasion that presents itself in the proximity of where I live.

If you were only born in Russia 100 years ago - you would have been in utopia.

Yeah, how dare anyone!!!!!

[pupyississido]

Well, I guess technically there is a consequence for these people. They anger enough of the rest of us to form, show up, and do the best we can to support the families. There seems to be at least more than one group willing and able to show up and do what they can to shield the families from these guys. Granted it is not everything you are hinting at, but it is something in showing support for our fallen troops and their families. I hate that it has come to this and agree with you that this level of hate is similar to physical or emotional assault, but this is the best we can do and is somewhat a price we pay for our freedoms. I may hate what this group does with their right but I support the rights we have which makes way for people to push those limits, for lack of a better word. (Like what this group is doing.)

Yes, you are right. In all this negative and cruel story, there is a big positive, and it is the overwhelming demonstration of support for the families of our soldiers, and the agreement between so many people of different political and religious beliefs to condemn this hateful group, if not legally, in their reaction.

[AromeWahmaron]

It's worthy of note that this isn't just a "religion" for the WBC, it's a business.

Fred Phelps is an attorney, although he is disbarred for life. At least two of his children are attorneys. One of the ways this "church" supports it's freak-show protests is by suing local governments when they get chased out of town.

The Southern Poverty Law Center classifies Phelps' inbred little group as a hate group, and maintains some data on them: Fred Phelps | Southern Poverty Law Center

[spravka.ua]

I think there should be consequences associated with freedom of speech. When someone purposely makes deadly, inflammatory comments or hate based demonstration or speech, there should be consequences.

Some words pronounced at some times (like hate words at the funeral of fallen soldiers, or hate words at the funeral of slain little girls) are as cruel and uncalled for as a physical assault on the parents of those victims, maybe even worse, as they never go away.

So, that sort of hateful, destructive speech should have the same consequences as (at least) a mild physical assault on the person.

There are consequences depending on the circumstances. The First Amendment's guarantee is not absolute and plenty types of speech related conduct are permitted to be banned and penalised.

There's no question these people are vile, disgusting cruel, hate filled shitbags. They've already announced that they will now 'quadruple' their picketing given the ruling, spewing their typical hatefulness in their statements of that intent.

Westboro Baptist Church to 'Quadruple' Military Funeral Protests After Supreme Court Ruling - ABC News

The SCOTUS pretty much nailed it in this summation:

. . . "Westboro believes that America is morally flawed; many Americans might feel the same about Westboro. Westboro's funeral picketing is certainly hurtful and its contribution to public discourse may be negligible. But Westboro addressed matters of public import on public property, in a peaceful manner, in full compliance with the guidance of local officials. The speech was indeed planned to coincide with Matthew Snyder's funeral, but did not itself disrupt that funeral, and Westboro's choice to conduct its picketing at that time and place did not alter the nature of its speech.

"Speech is powerful. It can stir people to action, move them to tears of both joy and sorrow, and - as it did here - inflict great pain. On the facts before us, we cannot react to that pain by punishing the speaker. As a Nation we have chosen a different course - to protect even hurtful speech on public issues to ensure that we do not stifle public debate. That choice requires that we shield Westboro from tort liability for its picketing in this case." (bolding added)

Snyder v. Phelps excerpt: Roberts's majority opinion in Westboro church case

This decision, however, doesn't mean that the Westboro people can do what they like regarding funerals. Governments can enact laws containing content-neutral 'time, place and manner' restrictions in generally applicable language that would regulate their activities and many have passed laws to do so. For example, such laws can keep picketers of funerals a reasonable distance away from a funeral so as to not disrupt it, set boundaries and requirements so that such picketers do not attempt to force its attendees to be a captive audience to their speech, etc. And again, we're talking public property here...nothing in this decision would give them any right to post their vile trash on a deceased person's online obituary on a privately owned website, etc.

[pupyississido]

If you were only born in Russia 100 years ago - you would have been in utopia.

Yeah, how dare anyone!!!!!

Thank you for sharing your wisdom! It is certainly a post that no one could have done without!

[barsikjal]

I hate to say it, because I cannot stand what these people are doing with their constitutional right, but the courts handled this correctly for now. As much as I hate the message and the delivery they have a constitutional right to do what they do.

That being said, the rest of us have every right to form a "respect" human wall of people to shield these families the best we can. Doing all we can to block these idiots and their message of hate from these families dealing with such a loss. To those that already do this for the families, they have my support.

Except it's less a message of hate than a message of confusion and stupidity. As I was saying earlier, these people are committing a serious error proclaiming themselves to be the final judges rather than God.


This reminds me of some quotes out of a book usually used against atheists and humanists:


Now we are used today to hearing some express their contempt of all authority. In particular, many college radicals are quite vocal, as are many of their professors, in despising any appeal to authority. Supposedly, they are free minds and need no such appeal. But all such claims represent either hypocrisy or ignorance, because there is no possibility of any thinking without authority. The only question is which authority ? - R.J. Rushdoony, "Law and Liberty," pg. 39


The authority of any system of thought is the god of that system. Men, by denying God, cannot escape God. God is the inescapable reality, and the inescapable category of thought. When men deny the one true God, they do it only to make false Gods. When you choose your authority, you choose your God, and where you look for your law, there is your God. - R.J. Rushdoony, "Law and Liberty," pg. 41


Strange how these quotes apply also to phelps and his crew who seem to believe that they have Gods authority to .... make a mockery of Gods authority.

[Marinausa]

Thank you for sharing your wisdom! It is certainly a post that no one could have done without!

Well I suppose I just state the obvious. The same obvious that others overlook.

[barsikjal]

You're not sure how you feel about freedom of speech?

Its sad this issue is even a goddamn debate er "news."

It is in the news.

It's in the news mainly because the Supreme court had to rule on it.

That the supreme court had to rule on something like this, is more of an indication of how American culture has degenerated on ALL fronts, from ALL angles.


As for your question: You're not sure how you feel about freedom of speech? I can only advise you to very carefully read what I wrote in that post. If you want further clarification see what I said here:

http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/brea...ml#post1863481

also.

[AromeWahmaron]

One of the great things I've seen in my encounters with these WBC idiots here is that whenever they slither into town, it brings together diverse groups of people from the community to stand in opposition to them.

The last time I encountered them at a soldier's funeral, it was in Plant City, Florida. They had around 10 of their members out to protest.

Literally hundreds of people turned out to support the family. The PGR and other riding groups (American Legion Riders, Combat Vets MC, Caretakers MC, Nam Knights, and a host of others) had over 100 people there as invited guests of the family, lining the walkways around the church. But there were also hundreds of people from the community out by the church and lining the procession route, holding up flags and signs offering their thanks and support. It's always amazing to see. For some reason, my allergies tend to act up and my eyes get a little watery. No idea why....

This is the "silver lining", if you will, of the vile actions of the WBC - it truly does bring the community together to oppose them.

Matt

[Gedominew]

One of the great things I've seen in my encounters with these WBC idiots here is that whenever they slither into town, it brings together diverse groups of people from the community to stand in opposition to them.

The last time I encountered them at a soldier's funeral, it was in Plant City, Florida. They had around 10 of their members out to protest.

Literally hundreds of people turned out to support the family. The PGR and other riding groups (American Legion Riders, Combat Vets MC, Caretakers MC, Nam Knights, and a host of others) had over 100 people there as invited guests of the family, lining the walkways around the church. But there were also hundreds of people from the community out by the church and lining the procession route, holding up flags and signs offering their thanks and support. It's always amazing to see. For some reason, my allergies tend to act up and my eyes get a little watery. No idea why....

This is the "silver lining", if you will, of the vile actions of the WBC - it truly does bring the community together to oppose them.

Matt

It's because, even though here at USPOL it might seem that we're at each others' throats, in reality we're all still just Americans, and we know that we're all in the same boat together, and we know how to stand up for what's right.


Nothing wrong with "allergies," Matt.