[gariharlj]

We are in a very slow recovery, jobs may never be the same. There is no arguement that the Banks and Financial institutions caused this debacle and cost this nation (and the world) trillions of dollars, nothing really was done to bring them to justice. How did the Teachers and public employees, who represent only a fraction of the lost riches, get the blame and punition way out of proportion to their situation? To be sure, some contracts are excessive, and a third party should negociate them instead of politicians, but the actual employees are taxpayers just like us, and most work just as hard despite the disparaging diatribe of some malcontents.

[pupyississido]

We are in a very slow recovery, jobs may never be the same. There is no arguement that the Banks and Financial institutions caused this debacle and cost this nation (and the world) trillions of dollars, nothing really was done to bring them to justice. How did the Teachers and public employees, who represent only a fraction of the lost riches, get the blame and punition way out of proportion to their situation? To be sure, some contracts are excessive, and a third party should negociate them instead of politicians, but the actual employees are taxpayers just like us, and most work just as hard despite the disparaging diatribe of some malcontents.

That is an excellent point! The real culprits just keep on getting richer and more powerful, and the teachers and other public employees are used as scape goats, to distract from the real problem AND to make the life of middle class people more difficult, and our education system less productive!

This is probably the biggest sin in America today: People value others not for what they do, or what they are, but for what they HAVE!
If someone is wealthy or make a huge salary. . .he/she is assumed to be better than someone who select a career where the rewards come not only in money (teaching, nursing, social work, firefighting, and police work, certainly must have more rewards than money, or NO ONE would want to do these jobs!), but also a service to the community in general.

No wonder children whose parents have such a disparaging attitude toward teachers don't respect their teachers!

[vladekad]

There is no arguement that the Banks and Financial institutions caused this debacle and cost this nation (and the world) trillions of dollars

[Quonuttott]

Noone is blaming the teachers for the economic meltdown. However, because it would apparently be illogical to regulate wall street and the banks to prevent another economic collapse of the same kind, it makes complete sense to screw public employees by neutering their unions to try and balance the budget while giving tax cuts and bailouts to wallstreet and the banks.

[pupyississido]

Noone is blaming the teachers for the economic meltdown. However, because it would apparently be illogical to regulate wall street and the banks to prevent another economic collapse of the same kind, it makes complete sense to screw public employees by neutering their unions to try and balance the budget.

I do like your sense of humor!

[gariharlj]

Noone is blaming the teachers for the economic meltdown. However, because it would apparently be illogical to regulate wall street and the banks to prevent another economic collapse of the same kind, it makes complete sense to screw public employees by neutering their unions to try and balance the budget while giving tax cuts and bailouts to wallstreet and the banks.

It would be even funnier if it were not so true. I suspect the far lefties may be right, this is a misdirection to split the middle.

[dumadegg]

It would be even funnier if it were not so true. I suspect the far lefties may be right, this is a misdirection to split the middle.

There is no misdirection going on here; it is a hostile corporate takeover of a state and it's utilities that would give unprecedented power and control to the executive office of the Governor of the state.

Teachers and other public employees unions are being used as a scapegoat by the right for budget ills that had nothing to do with the unions and everything to do with the fact that we're in a recession.

The Republicans are a party whose tactics are ultimately cynical on this matter: they depended on voter apathy in order to completely overhaul the state of Wisconsin, bust the unions, and give the executive branch the power to award private contracts without having to accept any competition for them.

Republicans won in a tidal wave last November and to many of them they thought it meant the country just loves them and would let them do as they please once in power, which is why the Republican plan right now is to advance old culture war issues that are not appealing to anyone other than the religious right, and to try to deliver wholesale more goodies to the top earners by way of gutting the middle to working class.

The national campaign among Republicans is jobs, jobs, jobs, yet their plan is estimated to cost the country over 700,000 jobs this year alone according to the CBO, Moody's, and Goldman Sachs, that liberal think tank.

The stink that Republicans have unleashed in Wisconsin and nationally with their peculiar and obviously naked stance against gov't jobs is not helping them among independent voters, who put them into office in order to protect American jobs while growing the economy.

The revelation that their plan actually loses jobs coupled with their lazy attitude about it is remarkable. Boehner said, "So be it" at the thought of Americans losing jobs because of his bill, and Eric Cantor and Mitch Daniels among others have echoed the same sentiments in interviews in recent days.

Their naked ambition to unseat President Obama, even if that means the economy goes back into the crapper because of their failed proposals, coupled with their ambition to deliver the country to the hands of private power could not be more clear or urgent or direct.

No misdirection happening here. It's pure politics and the consequences are real.

[flowersnewacq]

now for some facts
people are tired of the crying of the lazzy patheitc teachers
this is the typcal teacher
we work a whole 8 month s a year we need more money
we have 20 children in our classes and 5 are failures not our fault classes are to big we need more money
our benefts are terrible we dont pay into them like everyone else but we have a 10 dollar co pay we need more money
we have a job for life no matter how terrible we are a the job so we need more money to hire more teachers.
people are tired of paying school taxes that are now higher than their house mortgage to pay for these teachers and still have failing schools and then have the teachers just say well pay us more and we will do better.
about 70% of the school budget goes to pay teachers saleries and benefits and every year the schools come out saying they need to increase your taxes by 5%. a big part of that is to pay for the automatic pay raises teachers get
liberals dont want to here this their solution for everything is raise taxes and spend more money they dont understand that you cant raise taxes any more there is no more money

[Kitdowstyhodo]

The bankers and financial institutions have the bulk of the blame to be sure. After all, they lent money to any one who could fog a mirror. However, lets not forget the the blame that goes to the masses that bought into the ridiculous notion that one could buy a home that one really couldn't afford, but believed would simply increase in value into perpetuity, thereby making it a good investment.

There was regulation. It was called the Glass Steagall Act, and worked fine for over 50 years until Clinton repealed it. (it was passed by overwhelming by partisan vote in the house, far exceeding the necessary 2/3 vote to override a presidential veto, if indeed there was to be one. However, Clinton wanted the credit for passing it... so now he gets it.)

The teachers are not to blame, but their unions negotiated with politicians that they had in their back pocket to get sweetheart deals that the tax payer can not afford to keep.

[fereupfer]

The bankers and financial institutions have the bulk of the blame to be sure. After all, they lent money to any one who could fog a mirror. However, lets not forget the the blame that goes to the masses that bought into the ridiculous notion that one could buy a home that one really couldn't afford, but believed would simply increase in value into perpetuity, thereby making it a good investment.

There was regulation. It was called the Glass Steagall Act, and worked fine for over 50 years until Clinton repealed it. (it was passed by overwhelming by partisan vote in the house, far exceeding the necessary 2/3 vote to override a presidential veto, if indeed there was to be one. However, Clinton wanted the credit for passing it... so now he gets it.)

The teachers are not to blame, but their unions negotiated with politicians that they had in their back pocket to get sweetheart deals that the tax payer can not afford to keep.

pretty much sums it up well enough..

EVERYONE IS TO BLAME!

[JMLot]

We are in a very slow recovery, jobs may never be the same. There is no arguement that the Banks and Financial institutions caused this debacle and cost this nation (and the world) trillions of dollars, nothing really was done to bring them to justice.

Actually, there is plenty of debate to have and lessons to learn about the economic crisis and its causes. There were many parties over a long period of time contributing to what ultimately failed our economy. Saying it is exclusive to Banks and Financial Institutions is both without fact and rather ignorant I might add. I am not suggesting at all that they have no blame, quite the opposite in that risk and investment return based on complicated debt investment vehicles was a huge problem. But it was clearly not the only problem. It is just void of all facts, and some obvious political decisions in recent history, to pin the entire thing on one group. Politics, of the left and the right, played a huge role in this. In a way it shows a typical partisan lean others here have as well on blaming it all on the rich guys when it clearly is not the case.

How did the Teachers and public employees, who represent only a fraction of the lost riches, get the blame and punition way out of proportion to their situation? To be sure, some contracts are excessive, and a third party should negociate them instead of politicians, but the actual employees are taxpayers just like us, and most work just as hard despite the disparaging diatribe of some malcontents.

These are two separate subjects really, no misdirection but more just political obviousness. We have several threads going already in debate over public union collective bargaining and the implications of cost. It comes down to typical partisan politics of being pro-union or not and we have plenty here on both sides of the debate. In that, one could make a strong argument that Unions will always be a target of the right when it comes to budgetary concerns state to state. It is the inverse of the equally strong argument that the left typically supports union activity up to and including special benefit to unions not afforded to everyone else. This includes having tax payers on the hook for mismanagement of politicians, regardless of side of the isle in cause. And you are right, some of these contracts are out of balance when compared to the private sector.

Politics aside for a moment, the issue of state budgets are far worse now then before the economic crisis as the majority of states face a shortfall of some level. Just about every state has a financial issue to contend with regardless of the history of how they got into that position. Enter politics back into the discussion and you get the typical partisan points of view on how to remedy the issues. So, what is your solution to state budget concerns? Some will say cuts, some will say tax increase, some may say both, others may say massive wealth tax, but I am curious what your take is on this based on your OP here.

I'll go first, I am more interested in cost cutting, government size controlling, and limiting public union collective bargaining rights. I am on the fence on that last part but the more I look at the issues we face in government cost the more I lean to limitations on collective bargaining... for now. I view unions in general these days as a real departure from the original intentions of unions in our nations history and now are more political pawns in the long standing game of class warfare over any real interest in employee protections in safety and rights.

[flowersnewacq]

just to claify about my statement of lazy and pathetic teachers. i should have said people are tired of hearing them complain about how hard they have it al it does is make them look lazy and pathetic when you look at how much they work and what benefits they get compared to the majority of the country. they get a lot more for a lot less work.

[Mugflefusysef]

Please read the new report that Congress now has in their hands. Clearly, this was not created by the subprime loans, as 70 per cent of those were re-finances and many of those qualified for a regular loan, but got the subprime, as that was really profitable for the financiers who sold them, then placed bets on them that they would fail, and did.

There was around a thousand folks investigated after the S and L scandal, with a percentage of those going to prison. How many have been locked from the last scandal?

The financial sector was 40 per cent of our economy, and they donated billions to politicians, and got a return on that investment. Money talking, bullshit walking.

[Gedominew]

now for some facts
people are tired of the crying of the lazzy patheitc teachers
this is the typcal teacher
we work a whole 8 month s a year we need more money
we have 20 children in our classes and 5 are failures not our fault classes are to big we need more money
our benefts are terrible we dont pay into them like everyone else but we have a 10 dollar co pay we need more money
we have a job for life no matter how terrible we are a the job so we need more money to hire more teachers.
people are tired of paying school taxes that are now higher than their house mortgage to pay for these teachers and still have failing schools and then have the teachers just say well pay us more and we will do better.
about 70% of the school budget goes to pay teachers saleries and benefits and every year the schools come out saying they need to increase your taxes by 5%. a big part of that is to pay for the automatic pay raises teachers get
liberals dont want to here this their solution for everything is raise taxes and spend more money they dont understand that you cant raise taxes any more there is no more money

Get thee to a school! This unintelligible gibberish will only convince people that more funding for our schools is vital - look at what they're churning out!

[Gedominew]

just to claify about my statement of lazy and pathetic teachers. i should have said people are tired of hearing them complain about how hard they have it al it does is make them look lazy and pathetic when you look at how much they work and what benefits they get compared to the majority of the country. they get a lot more for a lot less work.

Have you done the work?

You think you know how easy it is? Why don't you go sub for a while? Easy money, right?

[Mugflefusysef]

The bankers and financial institutions have the bulk of the blame to be sure. After all, they lent money to any one who could fog a mirror. However, lets not forget the the blame that goes to the masses that bought into the ridiculous notion that one could buy a home that one really couldn't afford, but believed would simply increase in value into perpetuity, thereby making it a good investment.

There was regulation. It was called the Glass Steagall Act, and worked fine for over 50 years until Clinton repealed it. (it was passed by overwhelming by partisan vote in the house, far exceeding the necessary 2/3 vote to override a presidential veto, if indeed there was to be one. However, Clinton wanted the credit for passing it... so now he gets it.)

The teachers are not to blame, but their unions negotiated with politicians that they had in their back pocket to get sweetheart deals that the tax payer can not afford to keep.

But it has always been the banker's job to NOT lend to folks that could not afford it. I would imagine that many of these folks who got loans had no clue their interest rates would increase a couple years down the road. The bankers for some reason never looked at that rate increase vs. income when they made the loans. No, this was greed on the part of Wall St. and some bankers. Then when oi peaked in price, this took away from the money that was to be used for loan payments. Then we had the crash. There was a plethora of factors that played a role in the crash, but greed of Wall St. was the greatest factor of all.

Yet, neither the Repubs or Dems have fixed the financial sector, and the things that help out with the crash are still alive and well, even after the Dodd/Franks Reform. I reckon the financiers wrote that Reform! Ah, the smell of campaign contributions and napalm in the morning.

[katespepach]

You can look at the menu but you just can't eat...You can feel the cushions but you can't have a seat...You can dip your foot in the pool but you can't have a swim...You can feel the punishment but you can't commit the sin.

[Marinausa]

But it has always been the banker's job to NOT lend to folks that could not afford it. I would imagine that many of these folks who got loans had no clue their interest rates would increase a couple years down the road. The bankers for some reason never looked at that rate increase vs. income when they made the loans. No, this was greed on the part of Wall St. and some bankers. Then when oi peaked in price, this took away from the money that was to be used for loan payments. Then we had the crash. There was a plethora of factors that played a role in the crash, but greed of Wall St. was the greatest factor of all.

Yet, neither the Repubs or Dems have fixed the financial sector, and the things that help out with the crash are still alive and well, even after the Dodd/Franks Reform. I reckon the financiers wrote that Reform! Ah, the smell of campaign contributions and napalm in the morning.

Go look up the 1994 revisions to the Community Reinvestment Act made by Clinton and Al Sharpton and his NAACP ilk.

The notion that lenders would seriously lend to clowns that have little to no income without being forced is downright absurd.

[Gedominew]

Go look up the 1994 revisions to the Community Reinvestment Act made by Clinton and Al Sharpton and his NAACP ilk.

The notion that lenders would seriously lend to clowns that have little to no income without being forced is downright absurd.

bullshit

If YOU make the claim, YOU substantiate it or admit that YOU are talking out of YOUR ass.

[Marinausa]

bullshit

If YOU make the claim, YOU substantiate it or admit that YOU are talking out of YOUR ass.

I just did substantiate the fucking claim - the "1994 revision of the Community Reinvestment act."

WTF..