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Old 02-16-2011, 01:15 PM   #1
Allorneadesee

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Default Bahrain, Yemen, Libya Face Protests as Region's Unrest Spreads
Monkey see, monkey do - literally IMHO:

Bahrainis took to the streets for a third day of pro-democracy rallies as Yemeni demonstrators clashed with police and the Associated Press reported the first- ever protests in Libya against leader Muammar Qaddafi.

Bahrain’s interior minister, Sheikh Rashid bin Abdullah al- Khalifa, apologized for the killing of two protesters in clashes with security forces this week, saying an investigation is under way, the official Bahrain News Agency said. Hundreds gathered today at the funeral of a demonstrator who died yesterday. They demand democracy and the ouster of Prime Minister Sheikh Khalifa bin Salman al-Khalifa, a member of the Sunni Muslim royal family who has held the post for four decades.
LIBYA, YEMEN, BAHRAIN: Protests continue to erupt across region | Babylon & Beyond | Los Angeles Times
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Old 02-16-2011, 01:21 PM   #2
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Yes, I'm trying to keep track of all the protest and seemingly steps to regime changes in that region. Interesting times, For every country there that becomes even slightly more democratic, means good things for the US in the long run.
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Old 02-16-2011, 01:26 PM   #3
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Hopefully, Saudi Arabia is next.
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Old 02-16-2011, 01:43 PM   #4
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Yes, I'm trying to keep track of all the protest and seemingly steps to regime changes in that region. Interesting times, For every country there that becomes even slightly more democratic, means good things for the US in the long run.
so you accept the domino effect as being fact now?
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Old 02-16-2011, 02:31 PM   #5
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domino effect or unrest?
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Old 02-16-2011, 02:37 PM   #6
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Yes, I'm trying to keep track of all the protest and seemingly steps to regime changes in that region. Interesting times, For every country there that becomes even slightly more democratic, means good things for the US in the long run.
Our interests and the interests of citizens living in the Middle East are not always aligned. Many of the oppressive regimes that currently rule the Middle East serve our interests possibly better than democracies would, but democracy definitely serves the interests of these people better than authoritarian governments do.

As to the domino effect... When one country overthrows its own government from the inside, that can lead to other nations doing the same. When a government is overthrown from the outside, however, the effect is less positive.

For example, the government of Iran became more hardliner after the second Iraq war. There have been protests against this increased oppression from the Ayatollah, but the increase in oppression may not have occurred in an environment where America isn't literally sitting next door. There's also reason to believe that Iran would be less interested in developing a nuclear program with a less threatening environment.
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Old 02-16-2011, 02:54 PM   #7
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Hopefully, Saudi Arabia is next.
Yes, the Saudis are not now, nor ever been our friends, and it is a very oppressive regime.
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Old 02-16-2011, 02:58 PM   #8
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Our interests and the interests of citizens living in the Middle East are not always aligned. Many of the oppressive regimes that currently rule the Middle East serve our interests possibly better than democracies would, but democracy definitely serves the interests of these people better than authoritarian governments do.

As to the domino effect... When one country overthrows its own government from the inside, that can lead to other nations doing the same. When a government is overthrown from the outside, however, the effect is less positive.

For example, the government of Iran became more hardliner after the second Iraq war. There have been protests against this increased oppression from the Ayatollah, but the increase in oppression may not have occurred in an environment where America isn't literally sitting next door. There's also reason to believe that Iran would be less interested in developing a nuclear program with a less threatening environment.
You're correct about our immeadiate welfair. But any democracy in that region will be less likely to provoke other nations nor be a hotbed for terrorist activity. Therefore, better for us, and the world, in the long run.
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:02 PM   #9
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Hopefully, Saudi Arabia is next.
Much like Iran is doing, I believe the Saudis would squash it in it's tracks, violently.
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:45 PM   #10
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Yes, the Saudis are not now, nor ever been our friends, and it is a very oppressive regime.
The Saudis are our friends, but they're just not very trustworthy ones. The ruling family has helped us some in fighting terror; however, Saudi Arabia remains one of the largest funders of terror. This funding usually comes from other prominent families in Saudi Arabia.

If they do get overthrown, several American business interests won't be very happy about it, but the people of Saudi Arabia would likely rule things less strictly than the family of Saud.
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:49 PM   #11
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You're correct about our immeadiate welfair. But any democracy in that region will be less likely to provoke other nations nor be a hotbed for terrorist activity. Therefore, better for us, and the world, in the long run.
Sort of... It largely depends on regional conflicts.

For example, if Israel started getting more aggressive, a democratic regime might actually begin funding terror against them.

By the same token, if we invaded another country in the region, that could also lead to more terror being funded by a democratic regime.
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:52 PM   #12
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Much like Iran is doing, I believe the Saudis would squash it in it's tracks, violently.
Probably... Still, even the days of Iran's current regime are numbered. There's only so much more oppressive the Ayatollah can be before the people of Iran reach their breaking point.
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Old 02-16-2011, 04:06 PM   #13
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The Saudis are our friends, but they're just not very trustworthy ones. The ruling family has helped us some in fighting terror; however, Saudi Arabia remains one of the largest funders of terror. This funding usually comes from other prominent families in Saudi Arabia.

If they do get overthrown, several American business interests won't be very happy about it, but the people of Saudi Arabia would likely rule things less strictly than the family of Saud.
The ruling family is also one of the largest supporters of radical, terrorist Inan schools here in the US, along with others of the wealthy Saudis. From all that I can see, they only support us when and where it supports their interests, not ours.
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Old 02-16-2011, 04:10 PM   #14
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Sort of... It largely depends on regional conflicts.

For example, if Israel started getting more aggressive, a democratic regime might actually begin funding terror against them.

By the same token, if we invaded another country in the region, that could also lead to more terror being funded by a democratic regime.
Ok, valid points. We should actually butt out of much of the situation with Israel, and allow the issue of their building on disputed land to be settled without our money, military might and without helping them so much in the UN with this. Sure, we've given some words about being 'displeased' with building on disputed land, but nothing really substantial.
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Old 02-16-2011, 04:13 PM   #15
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The ruling family is also one of the largest supporters of radical, terrorist Inan schools here in the US, along with others of the wealthy Saudis. From all that I can see, they only support us when and where it supports their interests, not ours.
As far as I'm aware, the Sharia-based schools that the Saud family supports certainly sympathize with terrorists, but I'm not sure if they actually have a direct connection to terror. I wouldn't be surprised if they do though.

And yes, they are definitely Machiavellian in their motives. Granted, so are the American businesses that support them in turn.

Democracy is generally the last thing on either of our minds when it comes to U.S. - Saudi relations.
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Old 02-16-2011, 04:16 PM   #16
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Ok, valid points. We should actually butt out of much of the situation with Israel, and allow the issue of their building on disputed land to be settled without our money, military might and without helping them so much in the UN with this. Sure, we've given some words about being 'displeased' with building on disputed land, but nothing really substantial.
Agreed. Israel is more of a liability than an ally.
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Old 02-16-2011, 06:14 PM   #17
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$10.gallon gas is right around the corner.
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Old 02-16-2011, 06:31 PM   #18
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$10.gallon gas is right around the corner.
That's a good thing. Drive us off the OPEC teat.
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Old 02-16-2011, 06:41 PM   #19
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Much like Iran is doing, I believe the Saudis would squash it in it's tracks, violently.
Do they have the Army? My understanding was that the Sauds have always just HATED to spend money on the military, and Bedouins aren't that easily smashed.
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Old 02-16-2011, 06:44 PM   #20
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$10.gallon gas is right around the corner.
Why? Whether they're trying to keep power or take it they're going to need money, and what other source do they have?
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