[Peptobismol]

I'll get the Liberal Conspiracy to stop calling Conservatives bigots when Conservatives stop calling us rather erroneously Nazis, Fascists, totalitarians, communists, etc.

But as long as Newt can refer to "gay and lesbian fascism" being a reality in the nation, you are not going to convince me that calling xenophobic conservatives bigots is unfair.

[fruttomma]

So, the first amendment should have absolutely no limit, but it's OK to limit the second amendment.
Fine. Muslims can build a mosque were ever and whenever they please without regard for the feelings of others when and only when I can carry a firearm when and where I please without some liberal being horrified by the sight of it.
Can't have it both ways.

You're the only one bringing the second amendment into this, which of course, is a red herring.

But, I'll bite. Feel free to enjoy your second amendment rights. Be sure to respect other's rights while you're at it.

[interbaoui]

It's no secret that this mosque or community center is offensive to most of Americans, according to recent polls. Do they have a right to build this on private property? Yes. But it can probably be said that, by ignoring the polls and the heated debates, they are probably showing stubborn insensitivity towards most Americans, if they go forward with it. To many people, that says a lot in itself.

[interbaoui]

BTW, I can't see how the construction of this mosque is a slap in the face to Osama Bin Laden. If anything, I'm sure he would love to see it built, knowing that most Americans oppose it and find it offensive.

[Sxscdergh]

It's no secret that this mosque or community center is offensive to most of Americans, according to recent polls. Do they have a right to build this on private property? Yes. But it can probably be said that, by ignoring the polls and the heated debates, they are probably showing stubborn insensitivity towards most Americans, if they go forward with it. To many people, that says a lot in itself.

The constitution is also meant to protect Americans from themselves.

Andrew

[Sxscdergh]

BTW, I can't see how the construction of this mosque is a slap in the face to Osama Bin Laden. If anything, I'm sure he would love to see it built, knowing that most Americans oppose it and find it offensive.

I think he just wants people to fight over it, regardless of whether it gets built or not.

Andrew

[MP+4]

So, the first amendment should have absolutely no limit, but it's OK to limit the second amendment.
Fine. Muslims can build a mosque were ever and whenever they please without regard for the feelings of others when and only when I can carry a firearm when and where I please without some liberal being horrified by the sight of it.
Can't have it both ways.

Where did I say I want to limit the 2nd amendment? I think it's rather strange to want to walk around with a gun, but that's my opinion.

[MP+4]

Your priorities are out of whack if you believe the US needs to change more or before the Muslim world.

Where did I say the US needs to change more than and before the Muslim world?

[MP+4]

I did not suggest you should be against free speech, but if you don't like a message that is being pushed you should not hesitate to exercise your own right to free speech.

People seem to be very willing and eager to say that the US needs to change, but those who suggest the Muslim world could use some change are labelled as "bigots".

Where did I use the word bigots?

I think that the notion that all 1.57 billion muslims are the same and should be treated the same is counter productive, though.

[Lorionasodi]

There is the best quote that for me sums up the complete issue.

N.Y. mosque debate threatens midterm elections - The Globe and Mail

“It's pretty clear that no one is thinking with a level head when it comes to the proposed mosque-cum-cultural center two blocks from Ground Zero,” Pamela Taylor, co-founder of Muslims for Progressive Values, wrote Tuesday in a Washington Post blog.
“That includes the Muslims who planned the project without seeking a great deal of community input, the religious fanatics who want everyone to follow their brand of Christianity, the Republicans who seem to have no problem fanning the flames of bigotry if it can win some voters this fall, even the President who came out in support of the mosque when talking to a group of Muslim leaders, but then backpedalled the next day opening himself to accusations of being wishy-washy and saying whatever he thinks his audience wants to hear.”
Bad idea to inflame the religious tensions by proposing a Mosque near where so many were killed in the name of Islam.

Bad idea to oppose it because the First Amendment guarantees freedom of religion.

Bad idea for the right wingnuts to inflame the religious tensions for their own gains.

Bad idea for anyone to change positions depending on their audience.

[ManituIKOL]

That is factually not true.

That statement, which generalizes about all Muslims and Islam in general, is not true.

That statement is true of some Muslims and some interpretation of Islam, but that's no more true for all Muslims and all Islam than saying that Christians believe in Creationism.

And even if it were true, that wouldn't change the fact that we can't take away their rights without destroying our own liberty far more quickly than the attempt of them to take it that you seem to think will happen.

One of the surest ways to destroy all liberty is to deny it to others in order to defend it.

Because once we start taking away the rights of certain groups, those who keep their rights won't really have them as rights but as privileges temporarily extended to them.

To quote The Internationale: "Let racist ignorance be ended, For respect makes the empires fall! Freedom is merely privilege extended, Unless enjoyed by one and all."

Or to put it another way: "Your Honor, years ago I recognized my kinship with all living beings, and I made up my mind then that I was not one bit better than the meanest on earth. I said then, and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it; and while there is a criminal element, I am of it; and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free." - Eugene V. Debs

Your statement is at least as factually untrue. WWII is considered by most Americans to be one of our greatest victories, yet it was a low point for personal liberties; Blacks were segregated, Asians were locked up, the government exercised total control of the press, the free market was suspended and replaced with rationing ... That didn't become the norm. When the threat dissipated, so did the restrictions.

[Tryphadz]

I realize that it's not AT ground zero...... I think the big problem is trying to put it in lower Manhattan.

Have you ever been to Manhattan?

[Tryphadz]

Of course it will be open to all faiths and the faithless. After all, its main purpose will be recruitment. Anyone who wants to come in and listen to their propaganda, maybe pick up a few al-Awlaki CDs will be most welcome.

I find that icredibly annoying. I can't stand the whole religious recruitment thing. Chrisitians are actually much more annoying about it, especially in NYC. I wish everyone would just keep their religions to themselves. That said, everyone has a right to preach whatever thay want, as long as they aren't hurting anyone else.

When people talk about how "freedom isn't free", this is one of those "costs" of freedom. We're free to say what we want, believe what we want, etc... but in exchange, we must accept that others can say whatever they want, believe what they want, etc. Anyone who believes that "they hate our freedoms" should stop and think about what freedoms we are willing to give up. If we give up our freedoms, hasen't the enemy won the war?

[Tryphadz]

BTW, I can't see how the construction of this mosque is a slap in the face to Osama Bin Laden. If anything, I'm sure he would love to see it built, knowing that most Americans oppose it and find it offensive.

All the more reason for everyone to accept and embrace it. Boy, wouldn't Bin Laden be pissed knowing that he hasn't changed our country one bit, and that we are still a freedom-loving country that accepts all faiths and embraces their differences.

[Zysyewgg]

Where did I say I want to limit the 2nd amendment? I think it's rather strange to want to walk around with a gun, but that's my opinion.

And I think it's strange to want to build a mosque 500 feet from ground zero. Our personal feelings don't affect the constitutionality of either case, but knowing that you had a personal problem with firearms, I would respect your feelings and lock my gun in the car before I entered your home.
The constitutional right to build the Cordoba House is absolute. Building it at the proposed site would be offensive to a segment of society that has been offended by Muslims enough already.
Common courtesy and respect of the feelings of others should be considered.

[caseferter]

It's no secret that this mosque or community center is offensive to most of Americans, according to recent polls. Do they have a right to build this on private property? Yes. But it can probably be said that, by ignoring the polls and the heated debates, they are probably showing stubborn insensitivity towards most Americans, if they go forward with it. To many people, that says a lot in itself.

The recent polls indicate most americans are probably showing stubborn insensitivity towards moslems. So it's a wash.
This whole "issue" is nothing but an exercise in fringe right wing polemics.

[MP+4]

The constitutional right to build the Cordoba House is absolute. Building it at the proposed site would be offensive to a segment of society that has been offended by Muslims enough already.
Common courtesy and respect of the feelings of others should be considered.

What about Muslims being offended by you being offended, because they are not the same Muslims?

An article I read stated that they already wanted to open such a center in 1999. The reason they chose this location was because there are a lot of people who walk by. They got the idea from Jewish friends, who also have a religious (Jewish) center.

[NADALA]

Welcome to the United States of America. Here in America, we believe in religious freedom. That is, each religion has just as much right to practice (within that confines of the law) as the next one. This idea may seem scary to some, and some people may even wish to completely do away with the 1st amendment, crap all over the very founding ideas of this country and tell which religion where the can practice and when, but hopefully this will pass.

I like the idea of the mosque. I think it gives a big middle finger to Bin Laden and clearly illustrates why our country will always be far greater, far more free and far more rational than anything his insane mind could ever imagine.

The 1st amendment and feedom of religion is not why alot of americans are upset over the building of this mosque.Its funny how the gov. has stepped up to defend the right for this mosque to be built but for over 2 years now has told the greek orthodox church members whom lost thier chruch in the 9/11 attack (it was located near the towers) that they cannot rebuild and reclaim thier place of worship.

[MP+4]

Its funny how the gov. has stepped up to defend the right for this mosque to be built but for over 2 years now has told the greek orthodox church members whom lost thier chruch in the 9/11 attack (it was located near the towers) that they cannot rebuild and reclaim thier place of worship.

What was the reason they cannot rebuild/reclaim their place of worship?

[Tryphadz]

The 1st amendment and feedom of religion is not why alot of americans are upset over the building of this mosque.Its funny how the gov. has stepped up to defend the right for this mosque to be built but for over 2 years now has told the greek orthodox church members whom lost thier chruch in the 9/11 attack (it was located near the towers) that they cannot rebuild and reclaim thier place of worship.

Not true. No one has told them they can't rebuild. According to the Port Authority, the church has made unreasonable demands, which has stalled the project. According to the church, the Port Authority is now refusing to meet with them... but no one is saying that the church can't be rebuilt at some point.

Edit: here's a NYTimes article from March '09, well before any of this mosque controversy:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/ny.../19church.html