[plalleste]

Gore is surely an opportunist, but that has no bearing on the genuine research being done by the scientific community.

If Al Gore were an opportunist, he would have been an oil man all these years and not a bureaucrat who only got rich after the age of 50.

This thread is so retarded.

Everytime there's a big snow storm the usual suspects come out and go "Al Gore is an ass hole!", when he hasn't been wrong about this shit for the over 40 years that he's cared about it.

Warmer temperatures have warmed the oceans and we have more powerful weather systems now.

The AGW people have blind doubt just like they have blind faith in their little imaginary friend in the sky. Their science is based on feelings and doubt, and not on science like how science is based on facts.

Apparently what the AGW people are saying is that we should simply keep polluting our planet the way a smoker pollutes their lungs and just take it on faith that it won't have any bad side effects. We should just do nothing, yes?

[samanthalueus]

If Al Gore were an opportunist, he would have been an oil man all these years and not a bureaucrat who only got rich after the age of 50.

This thread is so retarded.

Before Gore developed his concern for climate change, he became a principal in a company that sells indulgences - er, "carbon credits". As his shrill sounding of the "alarm" increased, so did his profits.

That's an "inconvenient truth" that folks like yourself manage to ignore. If you think Gore really believes this stuff he pumps out, explain how that belief can be reconciled with his lifestyle (carbon spewing private jets, fleet of limos, massive mansion that consumes more energy in a month than most of us do in a couple years, etc.). And don't bother with the "but he buys carbon credits" bullshit - he buys them from, you guessed it, himself.

Matt

[Gilowero]

Before Gore developed his concern for climate change, he became a principal in a company that sells indulgences - er, "carbon credits". As his shrill sounding of the "alarm" increased, so did his profits.

That's an "inconvenient truth" that folks like yourself manage to ignore. If you think Gore really believes this stuff he pumps out, explain how that belief can be reconciled with his lifestyle (carbon spewing private jets, fleet of limos, massive mansion that consumes more energy in a month than most of us do in a couple years, etc.). And don't bother with the "but he buys carbon credits" bullshit - he buys them from, you guessed it, himself.

Matt

So? It is because he cares about the environment that he is active in the carbon credit market. I mean...this is completely in line with his general attitude. You cannot call him a hypocrite. If he would sell big trucks he would be a lier, but the carbon credit thing is nothing you can hold against him. It's like blaming an animal rights activist for making money with selling organic food!

But...yes....it is very convenient to distract from the actual topic by questioning Al Gore's credibility.
But this topic (Climate Change!!) is not about Al Gore. He just happened to be the first person who raised public attention on this matter. And I am thankful for that. I know, conservatives don't like him, because i would prefer staying oblivious and ppolluting the planet!

[baritkello]

So? It is because he cares about the environment that he is active in the carbon credit market.

roflamo...you've got to be kidding. The carbon credit crowd has been at it for some time now and where are the results?

[samanthalueus]

So? It is because he cares about the environment that he is active in the carbon credit market. I mean...this is completely in line with his general attitude. You cannot call him a hypocrite. If he would sell big trucks he would be a lier, but the carbon credit thing is nothing you can hold against him. It's like blaming an animal rights activist for making money with selling organic food!

Right - he cares so much about the environment that he maintains a huge, energy gluttonous mansion and flits about in a private jet belching carbon.

I can most certainly call him a hypocrite, because he is one. He's active in the "carbon credit market" because he makes a ton of money off of it - and it enables him to buy "credits" from himself to pretend he's sincere.

But...yes....it is very convenient to distract from the actual topic by questioning Al Gore's credibility.
But this topic (Climate Change!!) is not about Al Gore. He just happened to be the first person who raised public attention on this matter. And I am thankful for that. I know, conservatives don't like him, because i would prefer staying oblivious and ppolluting the planet!

Actually, the topic is Gore's claim about the storms.

Matt

[GogaMegaPis]

So? It is because he cares about the environment that he is active in the carbon credit market. I mean...this is completely in line with his general attitude. You cannot call him a hypocrite. If he would sell big trucks he would be a lier, but the carbon credit thing is nothing you can hold against him. It's like blaming an animal rights activist for making money with selling organic food!

But...yes....it is very convenient to distract from the actual topic by questioning Al Gore's credibility.
But this topic (Climate Change!!) is not about Al Gore. He just happened to be the first person who raised public attention on this matter. And I am thankful for that. I know, conservatives don't like him, because i would prefer staying oblivious and ppolluting the planet!

I got no dog in this hunt, because basically I am one of many who really does not care if the globe warms up, because it has done that in its history many times. It also cools down which is more scary to me than it warmnig. The thought of an ice sheet a couple miles thick in the Mid West is more catastrophic to me than the opposite.

But wasn't it old Al who claimed he created the internet? Those words or something very similiar passed his lips a few years ago.

If he is so concerned, he sure doesn't show it much on the personal behavior level. I would not want to pay his power bills on that castle he owns.

Seems to me that if the anti global warming cap and trade deal used on a weak economy would insure it never recovered. Something still stinks in Denmark about this whole deal to me. Just an intuition, mind you, but it has served me well in my life to date.

But again, I am no scientist, nor do I play one online.

[ElegeExcest]

The questions for serious people are:

1. How much, if any significant impact are we having on it
2. What, if anything can we do to mitigate any contribution our activities are making towards it
3. What are the costs to society of doing those things which can, if possible, mitigate our contributions
4. What are the costs to society of adapting to, rather than trying to change climate change
5. Are the costs to simply adapt to the change greater or less than the costs of trying to stop it.

Sounds like a good summary to me.

Some people still seem to think that the debate is stuck at "is the planet getting warmer". Yes, it is getting warmer. That is pretty much unanimously agreed upon. Our effect on that warming and if we can do anything about it is where the debate has long moved to.

And then Al Gore comes in and ruins everything.

[ElegeExcest]

The debate is not if the world is warming or cooling as that has been going on from the day the planet was formed. It's what causes these changes which are at question. When you think about it what has caused all the temperature changes the planet has experienced. What caused the ice age as an example? But this time around they point the finger at green house gasses, and that has not been a proven fact. And many have made a ton of money pointing at green house gasses as the cause.

So the jury is still out on what is causing this global warming if in fact it is even occurring

Right, global warming is occurring, but the debate is still ongoing over how much man has anything to do with it and what, if anything, we can do to contribute less to it if we are.

So, it's foolish for Al Gore and some of the left to suddenly jump up and blame these storms on global warming (and he obviously means man-made global warming specifically). However, it's also foolish for some on the right to belittle global warming and pretend like it doesn't exist or display their ignorance by not understanding how storms work. Al Gore saying "Man is responsible for this!" is equally as silly as saying "If it's called global warming, why is it snowing so much!?"

[baritkello]

Sounds like a good summary to me.

Some people still seem to think that the debate is stuck at "is the planet getting warmer". Yes, it is getting warmer. That is pretty much unanimously agreed upon. Our effect on that warming and if we can do anything about it is where the debate has long moved to.

And then Al Gore comes in and ruins everything.

Whenever the kleptocracy sees an opportunity they move in for the profit.

[GogaMegaPis]

Right - he cares so much about the environment that he maintains a huge, energy gluttonous mansion and flits about in a private jet belching carbon.

I can most certainly call him a hypocrite, because he is one. He's active in the "carbon credit market" because he makes a ton of money off of it - and it enables him to buy "credits" from himself to pretend he's sincere.



Actually, the topic is Gore's claim about the storms.

Matt

Yeah Matt, that is what makes me suspicious of Gore. If he really felt such a dire need to change things, why does he not set the example like the actor Ed Bagley? Gore ever ride a bike outside of is spa? But perhaps he just wants the average folks to "save the planet" by their own actions? He exempts himself. Typical elitest attitude.

Our winters in the South are getting colder, with more snow for the past couple of years, after a long spell of milder winters. In fact last winter reminded me more of the winters of my youth down here in the deep South. When stuff like that happens, average folks have a hard time accepting the projected models of the pro warming scientists. Just saying...

IF the world is indeed warming up, who is to say that it will keep doing it until the East coast is under water? Seems to me in the past when the earth warmed up, mankind exploded in population, like post last Ice Age here in America with its original Indians.

The REAL TRUTH IS, we really don't totally understand climate changes. It's causes, ALL of its causes. Some of this new stuff is new ground.

I don't doubt we are seeing a warming. What I do question are ALL of the projected ramifications of such. And given I doubt China will stop using fossil fuels in its own economic growth, anytime soon, the rest of the world could go green tomorrow, and China who is in the race to become the largest supplier of consumer goods will just take everyone else's place in the CO2 department. And rule the world in the process.

Frankly the sky has been falling ever since I gain consciousness as a baby. So, harder for us old farts to believe the newest "the sky is falling" predictions. And why is there always so much profit to be made in these assertions? Coincidence or just another con job to enrich a few? I have plenty of reasons to be suspicious. Remember 1984, by Orwell. Manufactured wars. Some of us have a right to be skeptical, given our past.

[iH1wMOhE]

An "opportunist?" Couldn't every successful entrepreneur be called that? Hasn't America been built by "opportunism?"

It wasn't as though Gore was lying about global warming. He was ahead of his time, alerting people to the reality of global warming way ahead of the curve. And he was largely successful in raising the world's consciousness.

If he made money in the process, gee, I would never expect conservatives, of all people, to criticize him for that. I thought the amount of money someone made was the ONLY criteria by which conservatives place a value on a person.

Hey, I'm not denying that some of the criticism of Gore coming from the right is hypocritical. I'm also not saying that his actions are devoid of societal benefits.

I've seen "An Inconvenient Truth". It's a good film even if it spends a little too much time on Gore's personal life. The science in the film is sound and is a good summary of what global warming is about.

Most of my criticism of Gore has more to do with the questionable nature of the carbon credits industry. With more regulation of how it works, it can become a more viable concept. However, I think people need to remember that, in the long run, this isn't as effective as directly making the switch to cleaner technologies.

[ElegeExcest]

Whenever the kleptocracy sees an opportunity they move in for the profit.

The science around global warming and what we can do about it really needs cooler heads to prevail and Al Gore does keep adding fuel to the fire. He's bringing a lot of heat his way when it'd be more beneficial if he would just chill out. Any warm reception he may have had to the scientific community has long ago cooled. He may think he's carrying the flame for the cause, but he's really iced over his relationship with everyone but his most hardcore supporters. And I think that's about as many sentences as I can go using temperature related words.

[iH1wMOhE]

If Al Gore were an opportunist, he would have been an oil man all these years and not a bureaucrat who only got rich after the age of 50.

Gore is definitely not as opportunistic as the Bush family has been, I'll give you that.

[baritkello]

I've seen "An Inconvenient Truth". It's a good film even if it spends a little too much time on Gore's personal life. The science in the film is sound and is a good summary of what global warming is about.

There's a lot of crappy science in the film with a few sound bits, a heap of speculation with creative data presentation and it's an ego driven propaganda piece that mostly preaches to the choir.

It's sad it took a kleptocratic poster boy who pandered to the left to get many people to consider the problems global warming could present.

[iH1wMOhE]

There's a lot of crappy science in the film with a few sound bits, a heap of speculation with creative data presentation and it's an ego driven propaganda piece that mostly preaches to the choir.

Would you mind citing some examples?

[baritkello]

Would you mind citing some examples?

It got plant respiration wrong as I recall.

An English Court found there were a number of errors in the film:Gore's climate film has scientific errors - judge | Environment | The Guardian

35 errors in the film:
35 Inconvenient Truths: The errors in Al Gore?s movie | Monckton

[Oriesssedleli419]

Speakeasy
Sounds like a good summary to me.

Some people still seem to think that the debate is stuck at "is the planet getting warmer". Yes, it is getting warmer. That is pretty much unanimously agreed upon. Our effect on that warming and if we can do anything about it is where the debate has long moved to.

And then Al Gore comes in and ruins everything. Actually, it is not "unanimously agreed upon" that the planet is getting warmer, in fact there had been little to no warming over a decade.

That said, the planet is ALWAYS either warming or cooling, the global climate has never been and will never be static over any reasonable period of time it is monitored.

My point it that we have absolutely no conclusive evidence (no climate model yet has accurately forecast climate change based on the theories of how man is impacting it).

[ElegeExcest]

Actually, it is not "unanimously agreed upon" that the planet is getting warmer, in fact there had been little to no warming over a decade.

Well, you should send NASA a stern email, because they seem to say differently.

Climate Change: News

That said, the planet is ALWAYS either warming or cooling, the global climate has never been and will never be static over any reasonable period of time it is monitored.

My point it that we have absolutely no conclusive evidence (no climate model yet has accurately forecast climate change based on the theories of how man is impacting it). I'm not going to disagree with you there.

[JJoon077]

Well. There is a third possible answer.

We can very well be in the midst of a natural climate shift due to the slight wobble of the Earth's axis which can be exacerbated by greenhouse gas emissions.

Add to that the fact that we are in a La Niña weather pattern right now which explains things pretty good.

Across North America during La Niña, increased precipitation is diverted into the Pacific Northwest due to a more northerly storm track and jet stream.[41] The storm track shifts far enough northward to bring wetter than normal conditions (in the form of increased snowfall) to the Midwestern states, as well as hot and dry summers.[42][43] Snowfall is above normal across the Pacific Northwest and western Great Lakes.[37] Across the North Atlantic, the jet stream is stronger than normal, which directs stronger systems with increased precipitation towards Europe.[44] Climate change/global warming, greenhouse gasses and La Niña can be found at the root of the current weather we are experiencing. The question is which one of these is having the greatest impact?

The Jet stream, to me is the most important element. As temperatures and barometric pressures fluctuate, the jet stream becomes more erratic to the point of being unpredictable at times. As more ice melts into the seas, desalination becomes more and more of an issue (even more than rising sea levels in my opinion) because its the salt in the ocean that drives the currents and subsequently weather patterns. When things get bad enough, we will start seeing snowfall in June and not because of global "cooling" but because the jet stream could shift in a way that funnels very cold air from the arctic as far down Georgia.

We can bicker about what is causing it but it is undeniable that the world's climate is indeed changing and there will be serious consequences unless we find a way to mitigate and prepare for the worst.

[Fertassa]

Much like evolution, global warming and its connections to man's actions is abstract and generally requires a level of comprehension and an educational background usually lacking in the average person.

Bullshit. I am sorry, but if the priest of any sect told me it required a level of comprehension lacking in the average person, I'd question the value of that sect's methods and principles. If the average person cannot grasp the difference between bad politicized science and honest research I'm pretty sure, they slept through most of high school science class. Thankfully most scientists don't hold to this idea. You may not be able to do the math of partical physics, but you should be able to recognize the implications of the principles behind the math. E=MC2 really is simple math.

I'm amazed that there are still people clinging to the idea of global warming. I don't expect Al Gore to give up on his delusions, his investments would suffer if he publicly admitted he was full of it. But to find otherwise intelligent people expressing belief in the theory of anthropomorphic global warming ... well its just a bit ...

Oh, well. You can still find people who believe in eugenics and a flat Earth.

tashi deleks,

M