[abishiots]

Just what we need, someone injecting race into the 2012 campaign. Here we go again.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/201...black-man.html

[sarasmid]

Foreshadowing: In my book, it's a junior senator from Pennsylvania that injects abortion into the discussion... And guess who I had in mind when I wrote that part? Thanks, Rick, for proving me right! :-\

As for the argument, I suppose Santorum would also be one of those people who spout off about African American people having too many children? Just remembering the arguments of the 1990s. So no abortion, no child care, no welfare... I guess he'd also be one of those people to support sterlization, or is there another answer I'm missing here.

[paydayuscf]

That's the one thing I can never figure out about the typical pro-life conservative.......take care of them, until they're born. After that, they're on their (and their parents') own. Makes no sense to me.

That's why I consider being truly "pro-life" to be far more than just being anti-abortion. Some people see me as being inconsistent, but I would argue that those who would restrict abortion, yet oppose universal health care, vote against education funding, cut unemployment benefits, support invading a country that had nothing to do with any attacks on the US, and argue for unrestricted access to automatic weapons, are really the ones who are inconsistent.

[Qrhzbadu]

As strange as Santorum's comments are (Your race should somehow determine your views, typically a province of liberal thinking) you two are quite frankly galactically deranged in your various assessments and attributing them to Conservatives.

[Kotyara]

Really? So conservatives don't oppose universal health care? It isn't a conservative who has made draconian cuts to education in my state? Conservatives in Congress didn't vote against extending long-term unemployment benefits in November? Conservatives didn't support the ivasion of Iraq? It isn't conservatives who let the NRA determine much of our gun regulations?

If not conservatives, then who?

Not everything that conservatives believe is bad, but the examples I've given are pretty indicative of what they've supported recently.

[space-on-s]

No the derangement comes from the conclusions you draw from conservative opposition to liberal initiatives likening that to arbortion, which as a Catholic you believe is the is the premedited killing of babies. Frankly, how does asking that extending Unemployment benefits be paid for up front (as Conservatives wanted) rather than go further into debt (as the Dems wanted) equate to murdering children? That is what I meant by a deranged assessment and not at all helpful to civil political discourse.

Note: I realize that most of you don't believe that abortion is murder so my argument is directly specifically at Pinky who if she is sincere in her Catholicism would believe that it is.

[UitEz0Qo]

If we do nothing after a child is born to ensure that s/he has access to food, shelter, medical care, and a decent education, we're not exactly doing things that protect the sanctity of life, now, are we?

I am 100% in favor of bringing every pregnancy to its natural conclusion. I also happen to be in favor of giving each of those children a reasonable chance at a long, healthy life. If that constitutes "derangement" then I'll accept that label gladly.

I realize that I haven't put this position into the stark black and white terms that you seem to need in order to understand, but I'd like to challenge you to think in terms of nuance.

[penpizdes]

If we do nothing after a child is born to ensure that s/he has access to food, shelter, medical care, and a decent education, we're not exactly doing things that protect the sanctity of life, now, are we?

I am 100% in favor of bringing every pregnancy to its natural conclusion. I also happen to be in favor of giving each of those children a reasonable chance at a long, healthy life. If that constitutes "derangement" then I'll accept that label gladly.


I realize that I haven't put this position into the stark black and white terms that you seem to need in order to understand, but I'd like to challenge you to think in terms of nuance.

By nuance, you, of course mean, thinking exactly as you do. Because apparently you actually believe that Conservatives are for depriving Americans of food, health and education, because they are not willing to empower a Bureaucratic nightmare that at enormous bankrupting cost will and has failed to provide the exact people you what you wish to deliver to them.

[SarSerceSaice]

No, silly, of course not. Conservatives aren't for depriving ALL Americans, just those who aren't already wealthy enough to be contributing to the RNC's coffers.

[Marlboro-oroblraM]

It's a cycle of sorts Paul, and I agree of course with Pinky on the logic, if not in the deserved legality of abortion: I fail to see why Consrevatives would be so staunch about making abortions illegal if those passing the laws are still going to make that child's life miserable by trying to deny it what seem like fundamental rights. Is it to just keep pointing at the irresponsibility of those kids when they become adults and do the same things?

[QwOpHGyZ]

Dave, Liberals have had many chances at spending GOBS of money to "help" people, has it helped? No, while helping a few it has in most cases done more harm than good to the Communities it was intended to help. The question is why do the Libs keep wanting to do things for the poor and disadvantaged that not only end up hurting them but bleeds over into those who are not so disadvantaged?

[Lafclaria]

I'll agree that not all social programs have worked the way they were intended by their proponents. However, how is funding for education, which is for all students, both rich and poor, something that needs to be cut? How does denying health insurance to those with pre-existing conditions (as one example) hurt those it's intended to help?

Turning things in the other direction, conservatives believe that businesses should be left pretty much unregulated, in order to maximize their profits so that they can provide jobs (I've got that much right, don't I?). Given the history of laissez-faire capitalism, why would conservatives continue to support that? I'm speaking of things going all the way back to the days of the robber barons, child labor, the 7-day work week, yes, but I'm also referencing the failure of "trickle-down economics" in the Reagan years and the more recent Wall Street meltdown as well.

[Gorlummm]

I'll agree that not all social programs have worked the way they were intended by their proponents. However, how is funding for education, which is for all students, both rich and poor, something that needs to be cut? How does denying health insurance to those with pre-existing conditions (as one example) hurt those it's intended to help?...

.

Think it through. What is the nature of insurance? Why do you have insurance? Use automobile insurance as an example, what would happen if the insurance companies allowed for "pre-existing conditions" to your car to be "insured". What is going to happen to the insurance market if companies must "insure" pre-existing conditions? It really isn't insurance anymore.

[WGRocky]

Think it through. What is the nature of insurance? Why do you have insurance? Use automobile insurance as an example, what would happen if the insurance companies allowed for "pre-existing conditions" to your car to be "insured". What is going to happen to the insurance market if companies must "insure" pre-existing conditions? It really isn't insurance anymore.

In exchange for insurance companies covering everybody, the exchanges guarantee that everybody is covered. This gives the insurance companies a huge pool of insured people, some who won't use the benefits for a very long time, if ever. That's what insurance is all about.

To use your analogy, auto insurance companies insure risky drivers as well as safe drivers because all drivers must be insured. The good drivers don't use the insurance, but since all drivers are insured, the pool is large.

[GWRIeEQp]

And of course all drivers pay the same rate for insurance? Right? Just like people with pre-existing conditions will be paying the same rate as those without. Or will those with pre-existing conditions will be paying drastically higher rates? Or as will be the case healthy younger people will pay much higher rates than their risk level warrants.