[Vigeommighica]

The nice thing about both Star Wars and LOTR is that the good guys are so good. Honorable heroes.

That, and the bad guys are so fucking out there in their evil.

Frankly, I'm surprised you like either, Wrath. I would think Luke and Aragorn would make you puke...

You nailed it. Jedis suck. Sith rule. I just love the movies in their entirety. Vader's Da Man!

[oliverlogo]

Luke has been developed so much more in the books that follow the movies. He's gone to the dark side, come back, damn near given up the idea of light vs. dark when fighting an enemy outside of the force, had his wife killed by his nephew, and all kinds of other crazy shit.

And I'm sorry to report: Chewbacca is dead.

No way! Who killed him?

[StivRichardOff]

True. He's like a space filler, no more. A pointless distraction. And he could have been really cool.

It got the Hobbits out of the woods, got Merry and Pippin their magical swords made by the men of the Westernesse to fight against the Witch King of Angmar, and woke them up to the dangers of the real world outside of the Shire.

[fedelwfget]

It got the Hobbits out of the woods, got Merry and Pippin their magical swords made by the men of the Westernesse to fight against the Witch King of Angmar, and woke them up to the dangers of the real world outside of the Shire.

I guess. They're still ghey though. Wights shoulda got 'em.

[strollerssfsfs]

Frodo and Sam are butt buddies.

[seatlyled]

No way! Who killed him?

It took a fucking moon. A fucking moon!

In a nutshell, a race of super warrior aliens who lived outside of the force as the Jedi know it came from another galaxy and started a war. Within a short period of time, they took over half of the galaxy with their technology made from bioengineering instead of machines. They also had some operatives who got their ahead of the main population who could disguise themselves to look like other beings. Instead of hyper-drives to go through hyper-space, they had some bio-engineered creature called a "villip" that would create wormholes, or something like that, to allow them to travel through hyper-space. One of the operatives set a trap and put one of these villips on a planet that he knew Han and Leia Solo would be at to try to kill them. The villip created a ridiculously strong gravitational pull, and pulled the moon out of orbit. As the Solos-Chewbacca ran to get on the Millennium Falcon to escape, Chewbacca stopped and grabbed Han and Leia's youngest son, Anakin, and threw him into the ship as it was pulling away, but could not get to it in time. The ship took off, the last scene is Chewbacca defiantly raising his fist as the moon crashes in to the planet. For the next 9 books of the series, Han is trying to get out of a deep depression at the loss of his best friend. It's fucking terrible. What's worse, Anakin dies several books later leading a team of young Jedi on a raid to kill the source of some beast that the aliens bred to specifically track and target Jedi. They had to kill them for their survival, as they were being killed one by one. Anakin dies saving the other Jedi, including his older sister Jaina. The series got seriously dark. Then, after all that was over and they made friends with the aliens, in the next big series Jacen becomes another Darth Vader, kills Luke's wife Mara Jade, and is ultimately killed by his twin sister, Jaina.

The series is great. If you've never gotten into it, I recommend starting. There's like 50 books to read.

[HonjUopu]

Frodo and Sam are butt buddies.

Nah. But I'm pretty sure Merry and Pippin were.

[brilkyPlayday]

LOTR is very much an allegory.

Moral purity (or the closest thing to it), in the form of Frodo, is fragile and weak, but ultimately overcomes the greatest evil.

It's the same idea in Star Wars. Ultimately Luke wins by refusing to kill his father, by choosing death over patricide. Through love.

[JAMES PIETERSE]

It took a fucking moon. A fucking moon!

In a nutshell, a race of super warrior aliens who lived outside of the force as the Jedi know it came from another galaxy and started a war. Within a short period of time, they took over half of the galaxy with their technology made from bioengineering instead of machines. They also had some operatives who got their ahead of the main population who could disguise themselves to look like other beings. Instead of hyper-drives to go through hyper-space, they had some bio-engineered creature called a "villip" that would create wormholes, or something like that, to allow them to travel through hyper-space. One of the operatives set a trap and put one of these villips on a planet that he knew Han and Leia Solo would be at to try to kill them. The villip created a ridiculously strong gravitational pull, and pulled the moon out of orbit. As the Solos-Chewbacca ran to get on the Millennium Falcon to escape, Chewbacca stopped and grabbed Han and Leia's youngest son, Anakin, and threw him into the ship as it was pulling away, but could not get to it in time. The ship took off, the last scene is Chewbacca defiantly raising his fist as the moon crashes in to the planet. For the next 9 books of the series, Han is trying to get out of a deep depression at the loss of his best friend. It's fucking terrible. What's worse, Anakin dies several books later leading a team of young Jedi on a raid to kill the source of some beast that the aliens bred to specifically track and target Jedi. They had to kill them for their survival, as they were being killed one by one. Anakin dies saving the other Jedi, including his older sister Jaina. The series got seriously dark. Then, after all that was over and they made friends with the aliens, in the next big series Jacen becomes another Darth Vader, kills Luke's wife Mara Jade, and is ultimately killed by his twin sister, Jaina.

The series is great. If you've never gotten into it, I recommend starting. There's like 50 books to read.

My worry has always been that the writing would be poor, and it would tarnish my love of SW.

Most of the novels I read are sci-fi/fantasy, so it would be a natural fit.

[astefecyAvevy]

Frodo and Sam are butt buddies.

Got that right.

[DavidShreder]

It got the Hobbits out of the woods, got Merry and Pippin their magical swords made by the men of the Westernesse to fight against the Witch King of Angmar, and woke them up to the dangers of the real world outside of the Shire.

He's the "Buddha" in the story. He's beyond good and evil, to some degree. At least, that's my take...

[FYIbiatches]

My worry has always been that the writing would be poor, and it would tarnish my love of SW.

Most of the novels I read are sci-fi/fantasy, so it would be a natural fit.

It's not classic literature, but it's pretty good. I'm not super critical. The only book I didn't like was "Children of the Jedi", a stand-alone book early on in the series. There are several writers who contribute, and it's probably formulaic, but I like the characters and the situations they find themselves in. If you read fantasy books now, these fit right in. Starting fresh, you have the luxury of following the timeline. As the books were coming out in the 90's, they jumped back and forth a bit on the timeline. You can start from the beginning with "The Truce at Bakura" which takes place immediately after Return of the Jedi, and then move on to the series with Grand Admiral Thrawn. That series alone is worth the read, even if you don't read any more.

[FalHaitle]

It took a fucking moon. A fucking moon!

In a nutshell, a race of super warrior aliens who lived outside of the force as the Jedi know it came from another galaxy and started a war. Within a short period of time, they took over half of the galaxy with their technology made from bioengineering instead of machines. They also had some operatives who got their ahead of the main population who could disguise themselves to look like other beings. Instead of hyper-drives to go through hyper-space, they had some bio-engineered creature called a "villip" that would create wormholes, or something like that, to allow them to travel through hyper-space. One of the operatives set a trap and put one of these villips on a planet that he knew Han and Leia Solo would be at to try to kill them. The villip created a ridiculously strong gravitational pull, and pulled the moon out of orbit. As the Solos-Chewbacca ran to get on the Millennium Falcon to escape, Chewbacca stopped and grabbed Han and Leia's youngest son, Anakin, and threw him into the ship as it was pulling away, but could not get to it in time. The ship took off, the last scene is Chewbacca defiantly raising his fist as the moon crashes in to the planet. For the next 9 books of the series, Han is trying to get out of a deep depression at the loss of his best friend. It's fucking terrible. What's worse, Anakin dies several books later leading a team of young Jedi on a raid to kill the source of some beast that the aliens bred to specifically track and target Jedi. They had to kill them for their survival, as they were being killed one by one. Anakin dies saving the other Jedi, including his older sister Jaina. The series got seriously dark. Then, after all that was over and they made friends with the aliens, in the next big series Jacen becomes another Darth Vader, kills Luke's wife Mara Jade, and is ultimately killed by his twin sister, Jaina.

The series is great. If you've never gotten into it, I recommend starting. There's like 50 books to read.

Fuck! Can't believe Chewy died. Well, at least it was a spectacular death, that's what counts. I never got into the Jedi stuff, though I knew of the aliens. I like the Sith series better. You should read the Darth Bane trilogy. Out of this fucking world, man! The Rise of Darth Vader too; it chronicles his struggle to adapt to his life as a Sith, being crippled and being contained within the suit. If you like the Coruscanti political stuff, try Cloak of Deception; it's Palpatine wrestling for control of the senate, and engineering the conditions for the Clone Wars, prior to being made Chancellor. Ace stuff. He's a genius.

[Discus]

LOTR is very much an allegory.

Moral purity (or the closest thing to it), in the form of Frodo, is fragile and weak, but ultimately overcomes the greatest evil.

It's the same idea in Star Wars. Ultimately Luke wins by refusing to kill his father, by choosing death over patricide. Through love.

Just out of interest, do you believe that good is stronger than evil? That's perhaps for a different thread, but I had to ask.

[raspirator]

He's the "Buddha" in the story. He's beyond good and evil, to some degree. At least, that's my take...

Agreed. Bombadil is neutral.

[Pete789]

Nah. But I'm pretty sure Merry and Pippin were.

I dunno, dude, Frodo and Sam constantly had "that look" in their eyes.

[Kristoferson]

Just out of interest, do you believe that good is stronger than evil? That's perhaps for a different thread, but I had to ask.

That's an exceedingly tough question. And I have a lot of notions, mostly incomplete, on the subject.

At face value, no. Evil is stronger. But there is a strength in self-sacrifice, I think, that trumps everything else. An intangible quality.

Leonidas had to go get himself killed, on purpose, in order to shame/inspire the Greeks to defeat the Persians...

[YpbWF5Yo]

I dunno, dude, Frodo and Sam constantly had "that look" in their eyes.

Yeah, that's the movie. In the book they all took baths together. Merry and Pippin never married, but traveled the world together after Frodo left for the Havens.

[qilmuz6v]

That's an exceedingly tough question. And I have a lot of notions, mostly incomplete, on the subject.

At face value, no. Evil is stronger. But there is a strength in self-sacrifice, I think, that trumps everything else. An intangible quality.

Leonidas had to go get himself killed, on purpose, in order to shame/inspire the Greeks to defeat the Persians...

Self sacrifice. Right. That would be good. Indeed, that is love. Which would make hatred evil.

This is my understanding.

[eljugadordepoquer]

Self sacrifice. Right. That would be good. Indeed, that is love. Which would make hatred evil.

This is my understanding.

Think about Obi-Wan letting himself be killed, in order to set in motion the ultimate victory.

Maybe that only works in the movies and the Bible, but I am devoted to that concept. I try to internalize it.

I'm no delicate flower. I've been involved in a great deal of physical altercations. But I've tried to limit my involvement to the defense of others, especially the weak.

And I can honestly tell you, no matter the odds, I've never lost when fighting to protect or defend someone else.

In the fall of 2010, my boss took 12 of us to a Philadelphia Eagles football game. It's notoriously violent down there. After the game, four of us were in the parking lot, partying a little, and I looked over and my friend is suddenly staggering around, bleeding profusely from the neck. Somebody walked up and hit him with a beer bottle in the back of the head/neck. When I shook him back into consciousness and asked who did it, he pointed at a guy who was just standing there with about 15 people, watching us, laughing at my friend standing there bleeding. I walked right over to that guy, put his ass down and beat the hell out of him. At the same time, all his buddies were apparently kicking me in the face, ribs, etc. I never really noticed. I took him out, then cleared a space around myself, and walked away. I can't explain that. I can't take credit for it. I believe the spirit of the lord was upon me, or something like that. I was made invincible.



On the other hand, a few times I have really had the shit kicked out of me, and each time I was fighting out of pride and arrogance. Self-serving bullshit.