[timgillmoreeztf]

I've been looking over some poll numbers from various places.. Just kind of amazed that Obama's numbers are as high as they are, and I've seen some surprisingly strong support for a democrat congress too. I think these numbers should be in the tank, but they aren't...

Here's a general purpose, NBC/WSJ poll that's kind of interesting on the Congressional issue. (Q 10-13)

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Se...BCWSJfinal.pdf

There's also an interesting PEW research study here:

http://www.people-press.org/2012/01/...cy-priorities/

A highlight:



Note the support for securing entitlements.. Even over such things like the military.

This isn't a fluke.. Because I can't find support for seriously curtailing entitlements anywhere.. and I've been looking for a while.

This article is from 2011, but it's completely illustrative.. Google will turn up hundreds just like it.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...Tabs%3Darticle

I wonder if the GOP making noise about going after entitlements isn't going to end up driving boomers to the left?

Republican voters want their entitlements secured. Period.. Even 71% Republicans want SS secured. (A higher number than even the Independents, btw) Over half feel the same way about Medicare.. (A number ALSO higher than the independents) Which still scores higher than strengthening the Military and dealing with illegal immigration. (I wonder if the boomers, being old and out of the work force, just see a bunch of cheap gardeners?) or dealing with our energy problem.

The boomers are a pampered bunch who want what they want, and they've got the power to get it.. even at our collective expense.. I wonder what will happen if the GOP begins to cut these programs and they push back? After all, the attitude I've heard from most of them is "I worked hard and payed a fortune in taxes! I want mah medicare!!!"

Threaten that and I'll bet you shove them right into the independent camp.. Or worse, straight across the isle into the arms of the democrats.

They're old, they don't give a shit about anything but themselves and they want their benefits..

Thoughts?







PS: Unrelated but interesting.. Registered voters trust the Republican candidates over Obama to fight corruption (Which they believe is a problem) but the party as a whole fares poorly.. Probably because they don't seem to much give a shit about it one way or the other.

http://biggovernment.com/tfitton/201...s/#more-415200

[LillyPlay]

The GOP isn't about to threaten boomer entitlements. They're only so conservative. The smaller(population/generation) workforce is suffering an unemployment rate, but there's enough in the tank to get them[boomers] to heaven.


Same as it ever was.

[mr.supervideogoodfd]

The left wing media was also touting Carter for a second term the same way...he was a virtual shoo-in ...virtual being the operative term. Until the silent majority spoke up in landslide fashion on election night, that is.

[sisimelanyk]

The "silent majority" is a dinosaur. They mostly tweet or twitter or some shit about some shit on assbook I could care less about. Of course, I'm posting here.

[adariseediups]

Independents are going to fuck up. I don't care. I don't care anymore. Funny thing is...I always secretly(even unto myself) never gave a fuck. Time's arrow...why bother and shit. Politicians don't change anything. They just navigate new routes for the inevitable movement.

[vipdumpp]

Just to make this clear. I loathe communism, but capitalism is the poison. There was never a pure, uncut either one. Moneyed interests will always trump the interests of even a sovereign nation, and if challenged, accusations of fascism will be raised. They want what they want, and you're a part of it or you're shit.

[Futfwrca]

FIRE THEM ALL.

[chootsonege]

THEN DO IT AGAIN.


KEPP THE BASTARDS OFF-BALANCE.

[rarpAcconavox]

...there's enough in the tank to get them[boomers] to heaven.

But not in style.. With big tax cuts and lots of groovy war and waste.

[iNYZgxNC]

I've been looking over some poll numbers from various places.. Just kind of amazed that Obama's numbers are as high as they are, and I've seen some surprisingly strong support for a democrat congress too. I think these numbers should be in the tank, but they aren't...

Here's a general purpose, NBC/WSJ poll that's kind of interesting on the Congressional issue. (Q 10-13)

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Se...BCWSJfinal.pdf

There's also an interesting PEW research study here:

http://www.people-press.org/2012/01/...cy-priorities/

A highlight:



Note the support for securing entitlements.. Even over such things like the military.

This isn't a fluke.. Because I can't find support for seriously curtailing entitlements anywhere.. and I've been looking for a while.

This article is from 2011, but it's completely illustrative.. Google will turn up hundreds just like it.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...Tabs%3Darticle

I wonder if the GOP making noise about going after entitlements isn't going to end up driving boomers to the left?

Republican voters want their entitlements secured. Period.. Even 71% Republicans want SS secured. (A higher number than even the Independents, btw) Over half feel the same way about Medicare.. (A number ALSO higher than the independents) Which still scores higher than strengthening the Military and dealing with illegal immigration. (I wonder if the boomers, being old and out of the work force, just see a bunch of cheap gardeners?) or dealing with our energy problem.

The boomers are a pampered bunch who want what they want, and they've got the power to get it.. even at our collective expense.. I wonder what will happen if the GOP begins to cut these programs and they push back? After all, the attitude I've heard from most of them is "I worked hard and payed a fortune in taxes! I want mah medicare!!!"

Threaten that and I'll bet you shove them right into the independent camp.. Or worse, straight across the isle into the arms of the democrats.

They're old, they don't give a shit about anything but themselves and they want their benefits..

Thoughts?







PS: Unrelated but interesting.. Registered voters trust the Republican candidates over Obama to fight corruption (Which they believe is a problem) but the party as a whole fares poorly.. Probably because they don't seem to much give a shit about it one way or the other.

http://biggovernment.com/tfitton/201...s/#more-415200

Whenever this subject comes up here all I get from Paulians and others who consider themselves puritan Conservatives is "you were stupid to believe the govt", "the money is gone, so tough shit", "SS and Medicare are unconstitutional so you're a liberal for wanting to receive bennies".

Those arguments might go over well here with some, but they aren't going anywhere in an election and even Ron Paul knows it.
The government indeed led us down a dead end street with these programs and we are getting close to the end now. But most Americans have experienced with their own families how these programs helped loved ones. To suggest these programs disappear cold turkey and "Oh well, the rest of you are fucked" isn't a conservative opinion either imo. It basically acknowledges the government can fuck its people any time it wants.

A better option, and one I haven't heard in great detail is to let these programs disolve over time. A 65 year old probably doesn't have the time or resources to catch up to a lifetime of saving. But a 25 year old does. We need a detailed plan that allows the public to see a more profitable option. It's not specifically MY demand because I have other retirement savings. But it's one you need to win people over. But if it doesn't appear to be better than what they have now, you lose.

When SS was created we didn't have the miriad of options to invest in such as 401k's and IRA's and CD's etc. SS should be the easiest to kill and win the people over on it.
Medicare will be a tough fight because the health care system is so fucking confusing and expensive, very few can explain it well enough to make a sensible argument.

[Jellowstrom]

Well, that's Paul's plan so why are you complaining?

[ionitiesk]

And enslaving future generations because of your mistake isn't very "conservative" Toney..

"HEY! You get to pay ALL YOUR LIFE!!! But when you get old there will be NOTHING THERE FOR YOU! Because WE'RE THE BOOM-ERS, the GREATEST GENERATION IN HISTORY!!! JUST ASK US, AND WE'LL TELL YA!"


I personally think anyone who is asked to do this AT LEAST deserves a 0% cap gains rate for life.. Should be a Constitutional Amendment...

[MADwanker]

The troubling thing about all of this is that half or more of the population remains ignorant and gets its news from MTV and SNL.

These people actually believe that Colbert and Stewart and Mahr are giving the news and telling the truth.

Our union controlled, politically correct schools have produced a couple of generations of idiots (not all, but the majority).

American history is no longer taught truthfully, no pledge of allegiance to start the day, and a teachers union that thinks, and teaches, that america is evil and must be punished.

Our big cities are full of fatherless, jobless kids who are producing more fatherless kids and killing each other for drugs and "turf".

[Noxassope]

And enslaving future generations because of your mistake isn't very "conservative" Toney..

"HEY! You get to pay ALL YOUR LIFE!!! But when you get old there will be NOTHING THERE FOR YOU! Because WE'RE THE BOOM-ERS, the GREATEST GENERATION IN HISTORY!!! JUST ASK US, AND WE'LL TELL YA!"


I personally think anyone who is asked to do this AT LEAST deserves a 0% cap gains rate for life.. Should be a Constitutional Amendment...

My idea "enslaves" fewer than would be now. And hopefully, if these entitlements are phased out entirely, it will eventually be zero, at least for SS and medicare. And you talk as though we're recently inventing these entitlements. This is an old idea that needs time to die. Attempting to kill it at once in the name of "conservatism" will just get you booted out of the room.

[soyclocky]

My idea "enslaves" fewer than would be now. And hopefully, if these entitlements are phased out entirely, it will eventually be zero, at least for SS and medicare. And you talk as though we're recently inventing these entitlements. This is an old idea that needs time to die. Attempting to kill it at once in the name of "conservatism" will just get you booted out of the room.

Again.. That's Paul's position.. So why are you complaining about it?

[bapimporb]

The troubling thing about all of this is that half or more of the population remains ignorant and gets its news from MTV and SNL.

These people actually believe that Colbert and Stewart and Mahr are giving the news and telling the truth.

Our union controlled, politically correct schools have produced a couple of generations of idiots (not all, but the majority).

American history is no longer taught truthfully, no pledge of allegiance to start the day, and a teachers union that thinks, and teaches, that america is evil and must be punished.

Our big cities are full of fatherless, jobless kids who are producing more fatherless kids and killing each other for drugs and "turf".

In other words, the problem is ingrained in society and will take a long effort to get it out of the public's expectations. Exactly what I suggested.
Anyone who thinks this can be done overnight is a fool.
I've said before, the only winning idea will be one that looks more profitable than the old way. Telling people they are stupid for expecting what was promised will get you a lot more Democrat votes if that's what you want (not adressing you, Cat).

[gedsiz]

The troubling thing about all of this is that half or more of the population remains ignorant and gets its news from MTV and SNL.

These people actually believe that Colbert and Stewart and Mahr are giving the news and telling the truth.

I'm not worried about them.. I'm worried about this gigantic bubble of old people who are going to vote their benefits, right, wrong, unfunded or indifferent..

I wondering if the GOP will push them too hard, or even scare them, into voting for "their" benefits/free shit paid for by someone else..

The democrats are more popular than they should be.. Not even the Republicans want SS and Medicare cut..

The support just isn't there. They don't care.. They just want it.

[chadnezzrr]

Again.. That's Paul's position.. So why are you complaining about it?

If it's Paul's position then I'm not complaining about it.
If I'm agreeing with Paul, why are you complaining about it?

[JeffStewart]

Telling people they are stupid for expecting what was promised ...

First, THEY ARE FUCKING STUPID. Let's just get that out of the way.. They're FUCKING STUPID. We've known it since the 70's.. We've known it all along. Now the day of reckoning is at hand, they are wrong, the money is not there, they are FUCKING STUPID.

Two.. They don't care! There's massive support for these programs.. Even with Republicans..

In fact, the Independents are more reasonable about it than the Republican voters are..

So, what happens when they hear GOP politicians talk about cutting them? They say nothing will change.. But, we hear a lot of GOP talking heads wanting them removed.. Or bankrupted.

I say it wouldn't take a lot of pushing to scare these people off... And that it will only get worse with time.

[Aniplinipsync]

If it's Paul's position then I'm not complaining about it.
If I'm agreeing with Paul, why are you complaining about it?

Because you're the one who brought "Paulistas" or whatever into this.. Not me.