[dyestymum]

This is a comment from the "Gentry Liberal" thread I posted earlier..

http://downloadpolitics.com/showthre...try-Presidency


There probably is no way to reverse the process under capitalism. It's a one way street, and a classic catch 22. The snowball effect. Wealth rises like warm air, and those without it have increasingly less where they're increasingly unable to stake a claim.

I also suspect that were it not for globalisation, it would be far worse, since markets exterior to domestic ones act to release the pressure by leveling the playing field by engaging outside markets. We'll see the same extent of the problem all over the world eventually, since global impetus acts to work the same way. Capitalism is the pursuit of capital, in the form of profit. It's about accumulation not dispersal. It can be no other way. That's it's nature. That's how it works. Which is why we get recessions and depressions. The bubble bursts periodically, and the process begins anew. Even worse, the cycle of boom-slump gets worse every time, and at more frequent intervals.

I don't expect this post to be popular, and I hope I'm wrong, but it is my opinion. Thoughtful replies only please..

[weaddercaps]

I disagreed with almost all of it. Foremost was this part: I also suspect that were it not for globalisation, it would be far worse, since markets exterior to domestic ones act to release the pressure by leveling the playing field by engaging outside markets. Capitalism is the pursuit of capital, in the form of profit. It's about accumulation not dispersal. It can be no other way. That's it's nature. And that part I agreed with.

I don't blame the natural flow of Capitalism, on the recessions and depressions. That's due more to INTERFERENCE with things, than with the principals of Capitalism itself. IMO.

It was a great response from Unbidden....but I was waiting on the next line of "That's why Socialism is the only true path".......that shoe didn't drop though.

[soipguibbom]

I disagree with parts of it. Also, I think he's got some valid points.

I was going to get into this a little more later, when I can give it my undivided attention.

[drlifeech]

PS: The graphic in the banner is unrelated to his post. I was working on it before any of this.

[GypeFeeshyTes]

Unfortunately, the U.S. is somewhere between a free market system and a fully controlled system. It's a tug of war which sees the rope pulled to one side or the other every so often. Capitalism being one extreme and socialism being the other. With any luck, the two entities will drop the rope at the same time and go back to doing their own instead of trying to force the other to its own side. After all, freedom is all about choice, but making them, not having them made for you. Greed is a terrible thing in extreme settings, but is it as bad as what they say about "the needs of the many..."?

Greed is impotent when not backed by the power of government. We're all greedy in our own way. We all want a raise. It's when that greed is for what others have, and the government takes it and gives it to you, that it becomes a real problem.

[Neitteloxesia]

Well of course. That would be the "controlled market" I referred to.
However, it's important that you pointed out greed takes many forms, not just monetary, and it's the goods and services which actually make capitalism possible.

I was more concerned with the greed for money. Everybody suffers from that. It's funny that it is acceptable to scream "greed" about the rich, but nobody wants to put that label on the truly greedy - the leeches that take without working and the dirtbags who game the political system to take as much money from productive people as possible (government unions, anybody?). As if anybody would pass up a chance to make a lot of money (if it did not go against some base core value).

[Buyemae]

I disagreed with almost all of it. Foremost was this part:
And that part I agreed with.

I don't blame the natural flow of Capitalism, on the recessions and depressions. That's due more to INTERFERENCE with things, than with the principals of Capitalism itself. IMO.

It was a great response from Unbidden....but I was waiting on the next line of "That's why Socialism is the only true path".......that shoe didn't drop though.

lol

I'm no socialist. That penny will never drop.

Regarding the engaging of non-domestic markets, I was referring to how, since resources are generally finite, the problem of a strictly national economy being a closed system, the pressure that builds up via flow of capital into a minority, would be temporarily decreased via globalisation. The reason being a much broader base of competition.

We were discussing how a reversal of process might be achieved. As I see it, nonesuch can be achieved within a framework of corporate orientation that tends only to the domestic. Globalisation itself is a natural offshoot of that process. We begin with business and commerce. From there it expands to include social phenomena. It's inevitable. Because at a certain point, sufficient wealth is amassed to effect institutions that rely upon it, and it upon them. From there, it's only a matter of time before every last outlet is encompassed. These things feed into each other, and are interdependent. Infrastructure, and government itself require funding.

Even supposing we erected an entirely different government system than democracy, we'd still have the same economic model that thrives on competition and drive towards profit. It would be the same system, whether it operated beneath the auspices of democracy, communism or totalitarianism. It would make no difference, as far the outcome. The format of governance would describe only how such as ideology and social order are imposed.

You don't want globalisation? That fine. But you'd better find an alternative economic model. Like it or not, capitalism is an international beast, and shall not be denied, unless we do away with it altogether.

[Heessduernbub]

I more than expect to be told to fuck off back to Russia.

[Vezazvqw]

You don't want globalisation? That fine. But you'd better find an alternative economic model. Like it or not, capitalism is an international beast, and shall not be denied, unless we do away with it altogether.

Well, that is certainly true.

[BoomBully]

I more than expect to be told to fuck off back to Russia.

I'm gonna have to write a long, detailed piece just to respond to this. So fuck off for making me work and think hard, you dick...

[Lafclaria]

PS: The graphic in the banner is unrelated to his post. I was working on it before any of this.

That crossed my mind.

[Z3s9vQZj]

I'm gonna have to write a long, detailed piece just to respond to this. So fuck off for making me work and think hard, you dick...

Sorry, dude.

[NeroASERCH]

Sorry, dude.

You couldn't have just told a dick joke, or something?!?!?

[onlyfun_biziness]

Also, there's the problem of monopolisation.

Even globalisation won't avoid it. It can only be delayed.

We'll see more instances of such as Microsoft being broken up, as capitalism proceeds. Then we'll be stuck with a shitload of competing interests with nowhere to go, and the system will crash forever.

[shieclulaweew]

You couldn't have just told a dick joke, or something?!?!?

Next time I'll talk about tits, I promise.

[NETvoyne]

Then we'll be stuck with a shitload of competing interests with nowhere to go.

Actually, no we won't.
Google is the number one most viewed website in the world.
Youtube is a subsidiary of google.

This time next year, Facebook will be the new Myspace, because of Google+
I wouldn't be surprised if Google launches it's own TV & Cellphone networks.

It already has it's own web browser.
This time a decade from now Google will own a chunk of everything.

Think about the Carver Media Network from 007 Tomorrow Never Dies... They could topple governments in a single broadcast. A few years from now that will be Google.

[XKAgustin]

I disagree as even a monopoly has its limits. Especially in the form of technology.
You used Microsoft as an example. Certainly they had a monopoly for a time, but now it's clear that Apple is the new king of the mountain due to technological advances and the demand for them. If you think in hindsight, if you had the monopoly on anything such as bell bottom jeans, steam engines, or anything really. Eventually, the monopoly is rendered worthless because the product is no longer wanted or needed, or you flood the market to the point where demand dwindles.

But then MS was the king at the time it was beheaded. Why should Apple fare any better? It too can only achieve the same level as to render it a threat to market forces, at which point, it too will need to be castrated.

You're also assuming that demand would inevitably dwindle. Why so? As in the example above, demand for one vendor's computer over another's is still a demand for computers. And all the while, profit being made. And what of food and other essentials? Demand never wanes.

[Beauseaccerce]

Actually, no we won't.
Google is the number one most viewed website in the world.
Youtube is a subsidiary of google.

This time next year, Facebook will be the new Myspace, because of Google+
I wouldn't be surprised if Google launches it's own TV & Cellphone networks.

It already has it's own web browser.
This time a decade from now Google will own a chunk of everything.

Think about the Carver Media Network from 007 Tomorrow Never Dies... They could topple governments in a single broadcast. A few years from now that will be Google.

You're describing interests with room to grow.

We're discussing monopolisation.

[car.insur]

It fails the basic workings of capitalism and how they max out profits.

The under cut labor

they cheat suppliers payables out to 120 days, 180 days...

the cheat customers making them pay more for less

and they cheat paying taxes, oh they will collect the taxes for their service or good, but 2/3 of fortune 500 companies paid zero tax, and Exxon got over a billion form the tax payer even when they made 40 billion profit.

capitalism is all about getting others to pay your cost to max out your profits. it is a cheaters game. It sucks ass and it is going to die.

[Shiplyopidomi]

capitalism is all about getting others to pay your cost to max out your profits. it is a cheaters game. It sucks ass and it is going to die.

And the upper 2% of society will do their damnedest to make sure we die with it.