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**LottiFurmann** · 11-18-2011, 09:46 PM

I'm waiting for someone to propose a group hug here. Then reality kicks in as the smoke we all just had wears off. I think of all the things that Israel has done for the arabs in Gaza and all it has brought has been more violence and more demands.
Israel provides medical treatment to Gazan arabs in need. Reward? Suicide bombers at checkpoints.
Israel provides power and light to Gazan arabs, reward? machinery running to manufacture home made quassam rockets.
Israel gives land to Gazan arabs, reward? Land used to launch rockets on Israeli citizens.
Give arabs the use of Israeli built highways, reward? terror towards Jewish users of the same roads.
I could go on and on about how much Israel has done for its ungratefull neighbours but I will allow, nay, even demand, that other posters continue to add to this immense list and the rewards that Israel has reaped because of its generosity.
Yup give and get a reward. Problem is that when you are dealing with primitives the rewards are not always what you would expect.
A nice little story Ed and it may tickle the fancy of kids in kindy but the real world is never more real than it is in Israel and it is NOT fair or ballanced.

I understand the frustration. What you may not see, unless you are on the outside looking in, is this: God is in control. There is no need to rest on human wisdom in these matters. The books of the OT should be enough of a guide to see that God will not go back on His word. Many passages are clear as to what will transpire in the coming years. Isaiah 19, for instance, has not yet happened. Has God said He is coming to Egypt? YES. Read tomorrow's news today. Has God announced what will happen to Damascus, the longest continually occupied city on the planet? YES. It will be utterly destroyed and uninhabitable. Will Russia and Iran come to Israel with hooks in their mouths? Yes. Again, Ezekiel 38 is evident as to what will happen. Trust God. This is the first part of faith. The next part is to seek God continually and live for the betterment of others. Enemies or not, this is what God demands from all of us. The example was set 2000 years ago.

All men are in debt to sin. This is a negative. How do we move a negative to a positive? If someone throws trash at my house, I can simply throw it away. I have taken the debt of one person and walked it back to a positive value. What happens if I throw the trash back at them? Two negatives make more negative. Is there another way? Actually, yes there is.

Two negatives multiplied make a positive. Why?

Consider this example: In mathematics, if you owe three people $10, then you are negative $30 (3 X -10 = $-30). If the lenders then say, "We forgive you for this debt because we love you," then you are free from that debt by another negative. You have just had three subtractions of -10, making you three positives of $10 (-3 X -$10). Your debt is -30 + 30 = Zero.

How is this applied to the world by the standards of God? Our sin is a negative we cannot pay by works of addition and subtraction. We can never achieve this goal by works. Our works are as filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6). Only God can multiply debt and walk us back to zero. Christ paid our debt by the worst negative a person can suffer. Suffering always leads to reward. Why? Suffering work leads to the betterment of others. Multiply your negative against Jesus death on the cross and sin is paid in full. Our debt is walked back by the suffering of the Savior.

Jesus died a horrible death to pay our debt, walking us back to a positive value. This is my view and the example to be followed from the pages of scripture. Love dispels hate. Nothing else.

11-18-2011, 09:46 PM	#7
LottiFurmann Join Date Jan 2008 Posts 4,494 Senior Member	I'm waiting for someone to propose a group hug here. Then reality kicks in as the smoke we all just had wears off. I think of all the things that Israel has done for the arabs in Gaza and all it has brought has been more violence and more demands. Israel provides medical treatment to Gazan arabs in need. Reward? Suicide bombers at checkpoints. Israel provides power and light to Gazan arabs, reward? machinery running to manufacture home made quassam rockets. Israel gives land to Gazan arabs, reward? Land used to launch rockets on Israeli citizens. Give arabs the use of Israeli built highways, reward? terror towards Jewish users of the same roads. I could go on and on about how much Israel has done for its ungratefull neighbours but I will allow, nay, even demand, that other posters continue to add to this immense list and the rewards that Israel has reaped because of its generosity. Yup give and get a reward. Problem is that when you are dealing with primitives the rewards are not always what you would expect. A nice little story Ed and it may tickle the fancy of kids in kindy but the real world is never more real than it is in Israel and it is NOT fair or ballanced. I understand the frustration. What you may not see, unless you are on the outside looking in, is this: God is in control. There is no need to rest on human wisdom in these matters. The books of the OT should be enough of a guide to see that God will not go back on His word. Many passages are clear as to what will transpire in the coming years. Isaiah 19, for instance, has not yet happened. Has God said He is coming to Egypt? YES. Read tomorrow's news today. Has God announced what will happen to Damascus, the longest continually occupied city on the planet? YES. It will be utterly destroyed and uninhabitable. Will Russia and Iran come to Israel with hooks in their mouths? Yes. Again, Ezekiel 38 is evident as to what will happen. Trust God. This is the first part of faith. The next part is to seek God continually and live for the betterment of others. Enemies or not, this is what God demands from all of us. The example was set 2000 years ago. All men are in debt to sin. This is a negative. How do we move a negative to a positive? If someone throws trash at my house, I can simply throw it away. I have taken the debt of one person and walked it back to a positive value. What happens if I throw the trash back at them? Two negatives make more negative. Is there another way? Actually, yes there is. Two negatives multiplied make a positive. Why? Consider this example: In mathematics, if you owe three people $10, then you are negative $30 (3 X -10 = $-30). If the lenders then say, "We forgive you for this debt because we love you," then you are free from that debt by another negative. You have just had three subtractions of -10, making you three positives of $10 (-3 X -$10). Your debt is -30 + 30 = Zero. How is this applied to the world by the standards of God? Our sin is a negative we cannot pay by works of addition and subtraction. We can never achieve this goal by works. Our works are as filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6). Only God can multiply debt and walk us back to zero. Christ paid our debt by the worst negative a person can suffer. Suffering always leads to reward. Why? Suffering work leads to the betterment of others. Multiply your negative against Jesus death on the cross and sin is paid in full. Our debt is walked back by the suffering of the Savior. Jesus died a horrible death to pay our debt, walking us back to a positive value. This is my view and the example to be followed from the pages of scripture. Love dispels hate. Nothing else.
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