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**immelawealecy** · 10-26-2011, 09:11 PM

About the Mahasanghikas:

The Mahāsāṃghikas advocated the transcendental and supramundane nature of the buddhas and bodhisattvas, and the fallibility of arhats.[14] They held that the teachings of the Buddha were to be understood as having two principle levels of truth: a relative or conventional (Skt. saṃvṛti) truth, and the absolute or ultimate (Skt. paramārtha) truth.[14] For the Mahāsaṃghika branch of Buddhism, the final and ultimate meaning of the Buddha's teachings was "beyond words", and words were merely the conventional exposition of the Dharma.[15]

A doctrine ascribed to the Mahāsāṃghikas is, "The power of the tathāgatas is unlimited, and the life of the buddhas is unlimited."[16] According to Guang Xing, two main aspects of the Buddha can be seen in Mahāsāṃghika teachings: the true Buddha who is omniscient and omnipotent, and the manifested forms through which he liberates sentient beings through skillful means.[17] For the Mahāsaṃghikas, the historical Gautama Buddha was one of these transformation bodies (Skt. nirmāṇakāya), while the essential real Buddha is equated with the Dharmakāya.[18]

This is hardly an "orthodox view", and hardly in line with the Buddha's teachings. As Guang Xing points out though, the origin of these Mahāsaṃghika doctrines can be traced to various passages in the nikayas -- and particularly suttas such as MN 123 and Snp 3.11, which clearly present the Buddha as a world-transcending, magical being. Not to mention numerous references in the suttas to supranormal powers and conversations with gods and devas, and the assertion in DN 16 that the Buddha could extend his lifetime to last an entire kalpa.

All these pieces of evidence suggest that the Mahasanghikas were a group of followers with resolute faith. According to Vasumitra’s treatise, the Mahasanghikas asserted that every word spoken by the Buddha is the preaching of the Dharma. This seems to be a clear indication that they took every word in the Nikayas and the Agamas as true sayings of the Buddha himself. This belief led them to develop a transcendental concept of the Buddha on the basis of the superhuman qualities attributed to him in the early sutras. If anything, it appears the Mahasaṃghika were too orthodox, in that they took all kinds of mythological material found in the scriptures literally. We can see that the tension between the "rational" and "religious" aspects of Buddhism goes back very far. So do many of the doctrinal differences that we still argue about today.

The proto-mahayana "mahasanghika" are hardly an unbiased source. And neither are the Theravada and Sarvastivadin texts from which we get the story about the Mahasaṃghikas having precipitated the schism at the Second Buddhist Council.

10-26-2011, 09:11 PM	#21
immelawealecy Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 433 Senior Member	About the Mahasanghikas: The Mahāsāṃghikas advocated the transcendental and supramundane nature of the buddhas and bodhisattvas, and the fallibility of arhats.[14] They held that the teachings of the Buddha were to be understood as having two principle levels of truth: a relative or conventional (Skt. saṃvṛti) truth, and the absolute or ultimate (Skt. paramārtha) truth.[14] For the Mahāsaṃghika branch of Buddhism, the final and ultimate meaning of the Buddha's teachings was "beyond words", and words were merely the conventional exposition of the Dharma.[15] A doctrine ascribed to the Mahāsāṃghikas is, "The power of the tathāgatas is unlimited, and the life of the buddhas is unlimited."[16] According to Guang Xing, two main aspects of the Buddha can be seen in Mahāsāṃghika teachings: the true Buddha who is omniscient and omnipotent, and the manifested forms through which he liberates sentient beings through skillful means.[17] For the Mahāsaṃghikas, the historical Gautama Buddha was one of these transformation bodies (Skt. nirmāṇakāya), while the essential real Buddha is equated with the Dharmakāya.[18] This is hardly an "orthodox view", and hardly in line with the Buddha's teachings. As Guang Xing points out though, the origin of these Mahāsaṃghika doctrines can be traced to various passages in the nikayas -- and particularly suttas such as MN 123 and Snp 3.11, which clearly present the Buddha as a world-transcending, magical being. Not to mention numerous references in the suttas to supranormal powers and conversations with gods and devas, and the assertion in DN 16 that the Buddha could extend his lifetime to last an entire kalpa. All these pieces of evidence suggest that the Mahasanghikas were a group of followers with resolute faith. According to Vasumitra’s treatise, the Mahasanghikas asserted that every word spoken by the Buddha is the preaching of the Dharma. This seems to be a clear indication that they took every word in the Nikayas and the Agamas as true sayings of the Buddha himself. This belief led them to develop a transcendental concept of the Buddha on the basis of the superhuman qualities attributed to him in the early sutras. If anything, it appears the Mahasaṃghika were too orthodox, in that they took all kinds of mythological material found in the scriptures literally. We can see that the tension between the "rational" and "religious" aspects of Buddhism goes back very far. So do many of the doctrinal differences that we still argue about today. The proto-mahayana "mahasanghika" are hardly an unbiased source. And neither are the Theravada and Sarvastivadin texts from which we get the story about the Mahasaṃghikas having precipitated the schism at the Second Buddhist Council.
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