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**Kolovorotkes** · 06-28-2011, 12:59 AM

Mark,

The phrase originated with Nagarjuna. We know the context of its origin and the meaning it was designed to convey. This is already discussed in this thread (and a couple of other recent ones here). The Buddha did not teach it.

Until they were written down, the Pali Suttas were memorized and passed on with as much effort as possible given to avoid the "chinese whispers" influence by folks who were highly committed and who had nothing better to do.

That things arise due to causes and conditions is irrelevant to the Buddha's purpose of eradicating the asavas and the suffering they generate. This has also been pointed out here.

The question of "inherent existence-or not" is not a "window into the Buddha's teachings". the Buddha himself pointed out that such speculations were meanigless to the Dhamma. It is an irrelevant tangent. And it does take the opposite of the "inherent existence", and we can see its use as meaning precisely that all over the place in "mahayana" writings and discourse.

06-28-2011, 12:59 AM	#26
Kolovorotkes Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 480 Senior Member	Mark, The phrase originated with Nagarjuna. We know the context of its origin and the meaning it was designed to convey. This is already discussed in this thread (and a couple of other recent ones here). The Buddha did not teach it. Until they were written down, the Pali Suttas were memorized and passed on with as much effort as possible given to avoid the "chinese whispers" influence by folks who were highly committed and who had nothing better to do. That things arise due to causes and conditions is irrelevant to the Buddha's purpose of eradicating the asavas and the suffering they generate. This has also been pointed out here. The question of "inherent existence-or not" is not a "window into the Buddha's teachings". the Buddha himself pointed out that such speculations were meanigless to the Dhamma. It is an irrelevant tangent. And it does take the opposite of the "inherent existence", and we can see its use as meaning precisely that all over the place in "mahayana" writings and discourse.
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