[Sheelldaw]

There is no contradiction if one views that there is no essential karma either.

A nonsensical contradiction in itself.

In Mahayana philosophy the concept of selflessness is applied to both persons and phenomena.

And done so as a metaphysics, which is vastly different from the anatta the Buddha taught.

Briefly, this view describes two levels of truth.

Which the Buddha did not teach, either.

On the conventional level, I experience myself as though I really exist, I experience suffering, happiness, and a whole bunch of other things.

And we are here, and we do experience suffering, happiness, etc. This is not a "conventional truth", this is a very real truth of our experience.

With detailed and thorough examination the sense of "I" as experienced is revealed to be delusional.

Our self-views are illusory. That is something quite different from the metaphysical speculation you declare here, based upon blind faith.

We can see through logic that the self cannot exist independently of mind and body, nor as the sum of the various parts of mind and body.

And now we are straying into a metaphysical doctrine of self, rather than the Buddha's indictment of self-view.

This is the selflessness of persons, if one applies the same logic to phenomena (for example a table) then the table is shown to be selfless (or tableless). This is the level of ultimate reality.

Wandering off into the darkness. The table is simply not mine, and nothing to proliferate illusions of status over.

Both rebirth and karma are dependent upon notions of a self as you pointed out

*Speculations* there "there is 're-birth' (reincarnation) and/or karma" are dependent upon notions of a self, yes.

On the ultimate level there is no self, table, rebirth or karma.

On the level of the Buddhadhamma, self-view is irrelevant and superstitions of karma and reincarnation are irrelevant. The mahayana has dumbed this down into a metaphysical speculation requiring blind faith.

However, until this truth really penetrates and transforms us we really only experience the conventional level of reality.

That does not follow. Once one penetrates the truths the Buddha teaches, once continues to breathe, eat, and experience. One still continues to live, and one dies.

It is in regards to conventional truth that karma and rebirth can be said to exist and effect us.

And again, the Buddha didn't teach anything like this. Mere poetry. Summoner has been replaced by pegs.

For me this distinction between two levels of truth is what really drew me to the Mahayana.

And away from the Buddha's teachings.

This distinction is what has facilitated my understanding of the majority of Buddhist teachings.

....though not of the teachings of the Buddha.

Because of my initial limited perceptions I could not understand a lot of what Buddhism teaches on the conventional level and had to put it on the back shelf (trying not to reject or accept too quickly, this was so hard for me!).

Ah,. here we go -- non-belief in superstition cast as closed-minded "limited perception" -- the "Xenophilius Lovegood" argument. I don't believe in Crumple-Horned Snorkacks simply because I am afflicted with "limited perception" and have a closed mind. Got it.

After about 5 or 6 years of putting karma & rebirth aside, the empirical evidence supporting them began to outweigh my doubts.

What empirical evidence? You haven't offered a shred yet!

Once I began to let go of the worldview that was preventing me from being open to the possibility of rebirth & karma, things changed really quickly for me and I realized that I had been really closed minded! Prior to this I was having a really hard time with these aspects of BuddhaDharma and really did not believe that I would ever be able to relate to them.

Sure, Xenophilius....

The teachings on emptiness and repeated reflection of the relative nature of conventional truth have expanded my worldview immensely, without me needing to sacrifice logic or reasoning in any way.

Or rather, without having to come to grips in any way with having sacrificed reasoning.