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**Dreaming** · 05-31-2010, 11:01 PM

in other words they are not self-standing but interdependent with everything else

...so you see sunnata as equating to "interdependence"? That is quite a different notion from how the Buddha defined it. Should we not be contemplating the Buddha's words, as you say in #2?

And it is also possible to understand intellectually that the laws of karma exist to us as an alternative to the theist notion of an outside creator.

Two sides of the same coin of superstition.

Indeed the Buddha has kindly provided a guide to help us realise just this.

The Maha Kammavibhanga Sutta is an excellent guide to show us the inefficacy of karmic superstitions, yes.

I think this taking refuge is simply agreeing with ourselves to put the Buddha-dharma to he test and enquire if there isn't something of benefit in it, something which will relieve our suffering.

Then should we not put the actual Buddhadhamma -- that is to say, the teachings of the Buddha himself -- to the test, rather than later fabrications like "interdependence"?

05-31-2010, 11:01 PM	#8
Dreaming Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 479 Senior Member	in other words they are not self-standing but interdependent with everything else ...so you see sunnata as equating to "interdependence"? That is quite a different notion from how the Buddha defined it. Should we not be contemplating the Buddha's words, as you say in #2? And it is also possible to understand intellectually that the laws of karma exist to us as an alternative to the theist notion of an outside creator. Two sides of the same coin of superstition. Indeed the Buddha has kindly provided a guide to help us realise just this. The Maha Kammavibhanga Sutta is an excellent guide to show us the inefficacy of karmic superstitions, yes. I think this taking refuge is simply agreeing with ourselves to put the Buddha-dharma to he test and enquire if there isn't something of benefit in it, something which will relieve our suffering. Then should we not put the actual Buddhadhamma -- that is to say, the teachings of the Buddha himself -- to the test, rather than later fabrications like "interdependence"?
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