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**CruzIzabella** · 06-02-2010, 01:29 AM

from post #15

I feel your point Frank.

Here is how I understand the older Western traditions and superstition...

If you are aware of the interconnectedness of all things and understand the world view from which "superstitions" arose, then maybe one can understand the purpose they served in a specific place & time. As things are impermanent, eventually such practices become meaningless old traditions. There is no need to judge older practices, if they are no longer beneficial we can discard without condemnation. When we condemn we close ourselves off to the wisdom that was inherent in the tradition in the form of myth & metaphor.

Comparison of science & myth

We tend to believe we understand phenomena so well through our world view and SCIENCE. However, prior to science cultures had religious beliefs about the world, and prior to that they had mythological beliefs. Those who pursued such ways of understanding certainly felt as if they understood the world well, as do our scientists. In many cases real meaning & benefit came through understanding the personal relevance of metaphors imbibed in myths. With science we understand the literal level of external phenomena better, but have lost the connection with metaphor, which is what could really be used as a guide. The underlying, unstated assumptions of the scientific mindset do not provide such guidance, rather they label such things as superstitious/meaningless because they are not measurable.

If we want to, we can actually see some of how these traditions lost their meaning:

How did this transition from a mythological perspective of the world to a literal scientific one occur? A significant portion of it grew out of the industrial revolution. Here a mechanistic view of the world was emphasized in favor of the religious view that had caused so much suffering through it's abuse. The way I understand it there were several reactions to the abuse by the Church: some decided that there was benefit in spirituality (some of these revived nature traditions such as Druidry while others re-organized Christianity) and the others rejected any potential non quantifiable approach to life. This eventually led to the industrial revolution and scientific movement. This is the real reason why science tends to be distrusting of religion, because it grew up thinking that spirituality is dangerous (otherwise there could be a blend of spirituality and empiricism like exists in Buddhism and other spiritual systems).

It is like our culture is a kid that has been mistreated who grows up and wants nothing to do with his parents, because they abused him in some way. This is, of course, an understandable response but it leave the kid disconnected from his past. Even though his parents may have mistreated him in some way, in closing that door he chooses to close off everything that was beneficial as well. So this is what has happened with science & spirituality and it is so ingrained in our thinking! We inherit it unconsciously. We think that these old traditions are meaningless because we don't understand the context in which they were meaningful. Our ancestors through out the baby with the bathwater, so how can we understand?

Putting science & superstition into perspective

Another perspective I find useful is to remember that with science, humanity can understand certain aspects of our world better, but that it is still metaphor! Scientific concepts are still concepts. They are only more enlightened in so far as they lead to happiness and remove suffering. Due to our habit of confusion we tend to forget that it is all metaphor, as all language is (like the finer pointing at the moon I'm sure you are all aware of). Eventually, science will pass and people will look at our times and think, what strange customs they did out of their obsession with science!

Having said all of that... if one does not understand the meaning of the myth or metaphor behind an old custom, then traditional beliefs become something very close to what I believe people mean when they say superstition and have little benefit if any. However, it is worth understanding that they are/were not totally useless.

Hope this is helpful to someone, it was so hard to get these concepts out in a semi-clear way... hahaha.

06-02-2010, 01:29 AM	#14
CruzIzabella Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 372 Senior Member	from post #15 I feel your point Frank. Here is how I understand the older Western traditions and superstition... If you are aware of the interconnectedness of all things and understand the world view from which "superstitions" arose, then maybe one can understand the purpose they served in a specific place & time. As things are impermanent, eventually such practices become meaningless old traditions. There is no need to judge older practices, if they are no longer beneficial we can discard without condemnation. When we condemn we close ourselves off to the wisdom that was inherent in the tradition in the form of myth & metaphor. Comparison of science & myth We tend to believe we understand phenomena so well through our world view and SCIENCE. However, prior to science cultures had religious beliefs about the world, and prior to that they had mythological beliefs. Those who pursued such ways of understanding certainly felt as if they understood the world well, as do our scientists. In many cases real meaning & benefit came through understanding the personal relevance of metaphors imbibed in myths. With science we understand the literal level of external phenomena better, but have lost the connection with metaphor, which is what could really be used as a guide. The underlying, unstated assumptions of the scientific mindset do not provide such guidance, rather they label such things as superstitious/meaningless because they are not measurable. If we want to, we can actually see some of how these traditions lost their meaning: How did this transition from a mythological perspective of the world to a literal scientific one occur? A significant portion of it grew out of the industrial revolution. Here a mechanistic view of the world was emphasized in favor of the religious view that had caused so much suffering through it's abuse. The way I understand it there were several reactions to the abuse by the Church: some decided that there was benefit in spirituality (some of these revived nature traditions such as Druidry while others re-organized Christianity) and the others rejected any potential non quantifiable approach to life. This eventually led to the industrial revolution and scientific movement. This is the real reason why science tends to be distrusting of religion, because it grew up thinking that spirituality is dangerous (otherwise there could be a blend of spirituality and empiricism like exists in Buddhism and other spiritual systems). It is like our culture is a kid that has been mistreated who grows up and wants nothing to do with his parents, because they abused him in some way. This is, of course, an understandable response but it leave the kid disconnected from his past. Even though his parents may have mistreated him in some way, in closing that door he chooses to close off everything that was beneficial as well. So this is what has happened with science & spirituality and it is so ingrained in our thinking! We inherit it unconsciously. We think that these old traditions are meaningless because we don't understand the context in which they were meaningful. Our ancestors through out the baby with the bathwater, so how can we understand? Putting science & superstition into perspective Another perspective I find useful is to remember that with science, humanity can understand certain aspects of our world better, but that it is still metaphor! Scientific concepts are still concepts. They are only more enlightened in so far as they lead to happiness and remove suffering. Due to our habit of confusion we tend to forget that it is all metaphor, as all language is (like the finer pointing at the moon I'm sure you are all aware of). Eventually, science will pass and people will look at our times and think, what strange customs they did out of their obsession with science! Having said all of that... if one does not understand the meaning of the myth or metaphor behind an old custom, then traditional beliefs become something very close to what I believe people mean when they say superstition and have little benefit if any. However, it is worth understanding that they are/were not totally useless. Hope this is helpful to someone, it was so hard to get these concepts out in a semi-clear way... hahaha.
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