DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Studies in the origins of suffering & being

**Zptmsemk** · 06-18-2012, 10:50 AM

dear forum

i was inspired to start this thread today on the origin of suffering & 'being'

MN 9 states:

There are these three fermentations: the fermentation of sensuality, the fermentation of becoming, the fermentation of ignorance. This is called fermentation. From the origination of ignorance comes the origination of fermentation.

Any lack of knowledge with reference to stress, any lack of knowledge with reference to the origination of stress, any lack of knowledge with reference to the cessation of stress, any lack of knowledge with reference to the way of practice leading to the cessation of stress. This is called ignorance. From the origination of fermentation comes the origination of ignorance. From the cessation of fermentation comes the cessation of ignorance. about the fermentation of becoming, MN 64 states:

To a toddler, who moves about with difficulty, there is not even a self. How could a view arise about a self? The latent tendencies of a self view lies within (anusetvevassa) him. (Bhikkhu Bodhi) interestingly, this MN 64 states:

To a toddler, who moves about with difficulty, there is not even a self. How could a view arise about a self? The latent tendencies of a self view filter to him. what do we think here?

1. does ignorance create self view?

2. or is the tendency to 'self view' (i.e., becoming) a distinct & separate tendency (anusaya) & effluent (asava) from ignorance?

3. if so, is ignorance exclusively not knowing the 4 noble truths?

4. if so, does ignorance, instead of creating self-view, instead, not understand the folly of self-view?

5. in other words, is the tendency to self-view not the view of an intrinsic self but, instead, the tendency of mind to grasp onto things as 'self', i.e., to look for something to take on as 'myself' or 'mine'?

6. or is the last translation more inaccurate, i.e., self-views are something that filter through the mind of the child from external conditioning, such as mother calling baby "you", "John", "Sally", etc?

in our observations of baby humans or animals, what do we think the Buddha was explaining here?

06-18-2012, 10:50 AM	#1
Zptmsemk Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 499 Senior Member	Studies in the origins of suffering & being dear forum i was inspired to start this thread today on the origin of suffering & 'being' MN 9 states: There are these three fermentations: the fermentation of sensuality, the fermentation of becoming, the fermentation of ignorance. This is called fermentation. From the origination of ignorance comes the origination of fermentation. Any lack of knowledge with reference to stress, any lack of knowledge with reference to the origination of stress, any lack of knowledge with reference to the cessation of stress, any lack of knowledge with reference to the way of practice leading to the cessation of stress. This is called ignorance. From the origination of fermentation comes the origination of ignorance. From the cessation of fermentation comes the cessation of ignorance. about the fermentation of becoming, MN 64 states: To a toddler, who moves about with difficulty, there is not even a self. How could a view arise about a self? The latent tendencies of a self view lies within (anusetvevassa) him. (Bhikkhu Bodhi) interestingly, this MN 64 states: To a toddler, who moves about with difficulty, there is not even a self. How could a view arise about a self? The latent tendencies of a self view filter to him. what do we think here? 1. does ignorance create self view? 2. or is the tendency to 'self view' (i.e., becoming) a distinct & separate tendency (anusaya) & effluent (asava) from ignorance? 3. if so, is ignorance exclusively not knowing the 4 noble truths? 4. if so, does ignorance, instead of creating self-view, instead, not understand the folly of self-view? 5. in other words, is the tendency to self-view not the view of an intrinsic self but, instead, the tendency of mind to grasp onto things as 'self', i.e., to look for something to take on as 'myself' or 'mine'? 6. or is the last translation more inaccurate, i.e., self-views are something that filter through the mind of the child from external conditioning, such as mother calling baby "you", "John", "Sally", etc? in our observations of baby humans or animals, what do we think the Buddha was explaining here?
	Quote