DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Paticcasamuppada II: In which Bhikkhu Bodhi Debates at Nanavira's Ghost, and Mettiko

**Liaptoono** · 06-16-2010, 09:32 AM

''Santāvuso sāriputta, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṃkataṃ sukhadukkhaṃ paññapenti.

"Friend Sariputta, there are some priests & contemplatives, teachers of kamma, who declare that pleasure & pain are self-made.

The sutta begins with the terms 'sukhadukkhaṃ', which are simply 'happiness' and 'suffering' rather than pleasant feelings & unpleasant feelings.

Although Sariputta instructs Bhumija in a way that refers to vedana or feelings arising at contact, the Buddha extends the discussion to intention.

Although the Buddha states even when happiness & suffering are 'self-made' (sayaṃkataṃ), they still depend on contact.

But the Buddha maintains the discussion on the level of kamma with Ananda, stating volitions in relation to the body, speech & mind cause happiness & suffering based in actions of body, speech & mind.

The Buddha states correctly these intentions are rooted in ignorance.

However, the Buddha is not discussing Dependent Origination per se here, which is why the sutta in inappropropriate to be used to define the terms in Dependent Origination.

The sutta is not about dukkha & Nibbana but about dukkha & sukha (happiness), which is still on the level of 'self-view' or conventional language.

06-16-2010, 09:32 AM	#17
Liaptoono Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 679 Senior Member	''Santāvuso sāriputta, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṃkataṃ sukhadukkhaṃ paññapenti. "Friend Sariputta, there are some priests & contemplatives, teachers of kamma, who declare that pleasure & pain are self-made. The sutta begins with the terms 'sukhadukkhaṃ', which are simply 'happiness' and 'suffering' rather than pleasant feelings & unpleasant feelings. Although Sariputta instructs Bhumija in a way that refers to vedana or feelings arising at contact, the Buddha extends the discussion to intention. Although the Buddha states even when happiness & suffering are 'self-made' (sayaṃkataṃ), they still depend on contact. But the Buddha maintains the discussion on the level of kamma with Ananda, stating volitions in relation to the body, speech & mind cause happiness & suffering based in actions of body, speech & mind. The Buddha states correctly these intentions are rooted in ignorance. However, the Buddha is not discussing Dependent Origination per se here, which is why the sutta in inappropropriate to be used to define the terms in Dependent Origination. The sutta is not about dukkha & Nibbana but about dukkha & sukha (happiness), which is still on the level of 'self-view' or conventional language.
	Quote