DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post

**StivRichardOff** · 06-16-2010, 05:13 AM

Wow, what an excellent exposition, element!

Thank you Stuka, but I am not finished.

There is the case where an uninstructed, run-of-the-mill person [putthujano] — who has no regard for noble ones, is not well-versed or disciplined in their Dhamma; who has no regard for men of integrity, is not well-versed or disciplined in their Dhamma — assumes form to be the self.

As you would have seen, the above is a stock phrase in the suttas about certain teachings that were about supramundane dhamma & not spoken to putthujano.

In the Majjhima Nikaya alone, according to the index, dependent origination is mentioned in nine suttas. Each sutta includes teachings on abandoning the doctrine of self & attaining Nibbana (except in MN 98).

This kind of teaching the Buddha did not give to puttjano. It follows dependent origination cannot be about rebirth because the Buddha taught rebirth teachings to what he described as putthujano.

Also, in MN 98, where dependent origination was taught to putthujano, it was taught as understanding how the various orders of beings ("names & clans") arise due to action & results. It was taught here & now.

For name and clan are assigned
As mere designations in the world
Originating in conventions
They are assigned here & now.

For those who do not know this fact
Wrong views have long underlain their hearts
Not knowing, they declare to us
'One is a brahmin by birth'.

One is not a brahmin by birth
Nor by birth a non-brahmin
By action is one a brahmin
By action is one a non-brahmin.

For men are farmers by their acts
And by their acts are craftsmen too
And men are merchants by their acts
And by their acts are servants too.

And men are robbers by the acts
And by their acts are soldiers too
And men are chaplains by their acts
And by their acts are rulers too.

So this is how the truly wise
See action as it really is
Seers of dependent origination
Skilled in actions & results

Action makes the world go round
Action makes this generation turn
Living beings are bound by action
Like the chariot wheel by the linchpin

06-16-2010, 05:13 AM	#35
StivRichardOff Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 433 Senior Member	Wow, what an excellent exposition, element! Thank you Stuka, but I am not finished. There is the case where an uninstructed, run-of-the-mill person [putthujano] — who has no regard for noble ones, is not well-versed or disciplined in their Dhamma; who has no regard for men of integrity, is not well-versed or disciplined in their Dhamma — assumes form to be the self. As you would have seen, the above is a stock phrase in the suttas about certain teachings that were about supramundane dhamma & not spoken to putthujano. In the Majjhima Nikaya alone, according to the index, dependent origination is mentioned in nine suttas. Each sutta includes teachings on abandoning the doctrine of self & attaining Nibbana (except in MN 98). This kind of teaching the Buddha did not give to puttjano. It follows dependent origination cannot be about rebirth because the Buddha taught rebirth teachings to what he described as putthujano. Also, in MN 98, where dependent origination was taught to putthujano, it was taught as understanding how the various orders of beings ("names & clans") arise due to action & results. It was taught here & now. For name and clan are assigned As mere designations in the world Originating in conventions They are assigned here & now. For those who do not know this fact Wrong views have long underlain their hearts Not knowing, they declare to us 'One is a brahmin by birth'. One is not a brahmin by birth Nor by birth a non-brahmin By action is one a brahmin By action is one a non-brahmin. For men are farmers by their acts And by their acts are craftsmen too And men are merchants by their acts And by their acts are servants too. And men are robbers by the acts And by their acts are soldiers too And men are chaplains by their acts And by their acts are rulers too. So this is how the truly wise See action as it really is Seers of dependent origination Skilled in actions & results Action makes the world go round Action makes this generation turn Living beings are bound by action Like the chariot wheel by the linchpin
	Quote