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**StanWatts** · 04-30-2010, 10:07 PM

sukitlek #6: gandhabba (consciousness of the unborn being)

How is this reconciled with the sutta, which states:
...

Sorry for lately post. Sometime I spend more time to understand English sentense.

I think the consciousness in gandhabba and in the states (...) are the same but different view.

In gandhabba may view in the term of supporting, like this :-

viññāṇa-ṭṭhiti: 'abodes or supports of consciousness'. The texts describe 7 such abodes (e.g. A. VII, 41):

(1) "There are beings who are different in body and different in perception, such as men, some heavenly beings, and some beings living in states of suffering (s. apāya). This is the 1st abode of consciousness.

(2) "There are beings who are different in body but equal in perception, such as the first-born gods of the Brahma-world (s. deva II). This is the 2nd abode of consciousness.

(3) "There are beings who are equal in body but different in perception, such as the Radiant Gods (ābhassara-deva). This is the 3rd abode of consciousness.

(4) ''There are beings who are equal in body and equal in perception, such as the All-illuminating Gods (subhakiṇha-deva). This is the 4th abode of consciousness.

(5) "There are beings ... reborn in the sphere of boundless space. This is the 5th abode of consciousness.

(6) "There are beings ... reborn in the sphere of boundless consciousness. This is the 6th abode of consciousness.

(7) There are beings... reborn in the sphere of nothingness. This is the 7th abode of consciousness"

About the 3 last-named spheres, s. jhāna (5-7). Cf. sattāvāsa.

In D. 33 there are mentioned 4 viññāṇa-ṭṭhiti, apparently in the sense of 'bases' of consciousness, namely: corporeality, feeling, perception, mental formations, which in S. XXII, 53 are further explained.
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In the states may view in the term of function, like this :-

viññāṇa-kicca: 'functions of consciousness', as exercised within a process of consciousness or cognitive series (cittavīthi). In the Abhidhamma Com. and Vis.M. XIV the following functions are mentioned: rebirth (paṭisandhi), subconsciousness (bhavaṅga), advertence (āvajjana), seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, body-consciousness; recciving (sampaṭicchana), investigating (santīraṇa), determining (voṭṭhapana), impulsion (javana), registering (tadārammaṇa), dying (cuti).

A single unit of sense-perception (e.g. visual consciousness), being conditioned through a sense-organ and its corresponding object, forms in reality an extremely complex process, in which all the single phases of consciousness follow one upon another in rapid succession, while performing their respective functions, e.g.:

"As soon as a visible object has entered the range of vision, it acts on the sensitive eye-organ (cakkhu-pasāda), and conditioned thereby an excitation of the subconscious stream (bhavaṅga-sota) takes place.

"As soon, however, as subconsciousness is broken off, the functional mind-element (s. Tab. I, 70), grasping the object and breaking through the subconscious stream, performs the function of 'adverting' the mind towards the object (āvajjana).

"Immediately thereupon there arises at the eye-door, and based on the sensitive eye-organ, the eye-consciousness, while performing the function of 'seeing' (dassana).... Immediately thereafter there arises the mind-element (Tab

I, 39, 55) performing the function of 'receiving' (sampaṭicchana) the object of that consciousness....

''Immediately thereafter there arises... the mind-consciousness-element (Tab. I, 40, 41, 56), while 'investigating' (santīraṇa) the object received by the mind-element...

"Immediately thereafter there arises the functional, rootless mind-consciousness-element (Tab. I, 71), accompanied by indifference, while performing the function of 'determining' (voṭṭhapana) the object......

"Now, if the object is large, then immediately afterwards there flash forth 6 or 7 'impulsive moments' (javana-citta), constituted by one of the 8 wholesome, or 12 unwholesome, or 9 functional classes of consciousness (Tab. I, 1-8; 22-23; 72-80).

''Now, if at the end of the impulsive moments, the object at the five-sense doors is very large, and at the mind-door clear, then there arises, once or twice, one of the 8 root-accompanied, kamma-resultant classes of consciousness (Tab. I, 42-49) of the sense-sphere, or one of the 3 rootless kamma-resultant mind-consciousness-elements (Tab. I, 40, 41, 56).... Because this consciousness after the vanishing of the impulsive moments, possesses the faculty continuing with the object of the subconsciousness, taking the object of the subconsciousness as its own object, therefore it is called 'registering' (tadārarmmaṇa, lit. 'that object', or 'having that as object')" (Vis.M. XIV, 115ff).

If, however, the sense-object is weak, then it reaches merely the stage of 'impulsion' (javana), or of 'determining' (voṭṭhapana); if very weak, only an excitation ot the subconsciousness takes place.

The process of the inner or mind-consciousness, i.e. without participation of the 5 physical senses, is as follows: in the case that the mind-objeet entering the mind-door is distinct, then it passes through the stages of 'advertence at the mind-door' (manodvārāvajjana), the 'impulsive stage' and the 'registering stage', before finally sinking into the subconscious stream. - (App.: citta-vīthi).

04-30-2010, 10:07 PM	#38
StanWatts Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 418 Senior Member	sukitlek #6: gandhabba (consciousness of the unborn being) How is this reconciled with the sutta, which states: ... Sorry for lately post. Sometime I spend more time to understand English sentense. I think the consciousness in gandhabba and in the states (...) are the same but different view. In gandhabba may view in the term of supporting, like this :- viññāṇa-ṭṭhiti: 'abodes or supports of consciousness'. The texts describe 7 such abodes (e.g. A. VII, 41): (1) "There are beings who are different in body and different in perception, such as men, some heavenly beings, and some beings living in states of suffering (s. apāya). This is the 1st abode of consciousness. (2) "There are beings who are different in body but equal in perception, such as the first-born gods of the Brahma-world (s. deva II). This is the 2nd abode of consciousness. (3) "There are beings who are equal in body but different in perception, such as the Radiant Gods (ābhassara-deva). This is the 3rd abode of consciousness. (4) ''There are beings who are equal in body and equal in perception, such as the All-illuminating Gods (subhakiṇha-deva). This is the 4th abode of consciousness. (5) "There are beings ... reborn in the sphere of boundless space. This is the 5th abode of consciousness. (6) "There are beings ... reborn in the sphere of boundless consciousness. This is the 6th abode of consciousness. (7) There are beings... reborn in the sphere of nothingness. This is the 7th abode of consciousness" About the 3 last-named spheres, s. jhāna (5-7). Cf. sattāvāsa. In D. 33 there are mentioned 4 viññāṇa-ṭṭhiti, apparently in the sense of 'bases' of consciousness, namely: corporeality, feeling, perception, mental formations, which in S. XXII, 53 are further explained. ----------------------------------------- In the states may view in the term of function, like this :- viññāṇa-kicca: 'functions of consciousness', as exercised within a process of consciousness or cognitive series (cittavīthi). In the Abhidhamma Com. and Vis.M. XIV the following functions are mentioned: rebirth (paṭisandhi), subconsciousness (bhavaṅga), advertence (āvajjana), seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, body-consciousness; recciving (sampaṭicchana), investigating (santīraṇa), determining (voṭṭhapana), impulsion (javana), registering (tadārammaṇa), dying (cuti). A single unit of sense-perception (e.g. visual consciousness), being conditioned through a sense-organ and its corresponding object, forms in reality an extremely complex process, in which all the single phases of consciousness follow one upon another in rapid succession, while performing their respective functions, e.g.: "As soon as a visible object has entered the range of vision, it acts on the sensitive eye-organ (cakkhu-pasāda), and conditioned thereby an excitation of the subconscious stream (bhavaṅga-sota) takes place. "As soon, however, as subconsciousness is broken off, the functional mind-element (s. Tab. I, 70), grasping the object and breaking through the subconscious stream, performs the function of 'adverting' the mind towards the object (āvajjana). "Immediately thereupon there arises at the eye-door, and based on the sensitive eye-organ, the eye-consciousness, while performing the function of 'seeing' (dassana).... Immediately thereafter there arises the mind-element (Tab I, 39, 55) performing the function of 'receiving' (sampaṭicchana) the object of that consciousness.... ''Immediately thereafter there arises... the mind-consciousness-element (Tab. I, 40, 41, 56), while 'investigating' (santīraṇa) the object received by the mind-element... "Immediately thereafter there arises the functional, rootless mind-consciousness-element (Tab. I, 71), accompanied by indifference, while performing the function of 'determining' (voṭṭhapana) the object...... "Now, if the object is large, then immediately afterwards there flash forth 6 or 7 'impulsive moments' (javana-citta), constituted by one of the 8 wholesome, or 12 unwholesome, or 9 functional classes of consciousness (Tab. I, 1-8; 22-23; 72-80). ''Now, if at the end of the impulsive moments, the object at the five-sense doors is very large, and at the mind-door clear, then there arises, once or twice, one of the 8 root-accompanied, kamma-resultant classes of consciousness (Tab. I, 42-49) of the sense-sphere, or one of the 3 rootless kamma-resultant mind-consciousness-elements (Tab. I, 40, 41, 56).... Because this consciousness after the vanishing of the impulsive moments, possesses the faculty continuing with the object of the subconsciousness, taking the object of the subconsciousness as its own object, therefore it is called 'registering' (tadārarmmaṇa, lit. 'that object', or 'having that as object')" (Vis.M. XIV, 115ff). If, however, the sense-object is weak, then it reaches merely the stage of 'impulsion' (javana), or of 'determining' (voṭṭhapana); if very weak, only an excitation ot the subconsciousness takes place. The process of the inner or mind-consciousness, i.e. without participation of the 5 physical senses, is as follows: in the case that the mind-objeet entering the mind-door is distinct, then it passes through the stages of 'advertence at the mind-door' (manodvārāvajjana), the 'impulsive stage' and the 'registering stage', before finally sinking into the subconscious stream. - (App.: citta-vīthi).
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