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Isaiah 9:10 - The Harbinger - God's Judgment on America?
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11-09-2012, 04:59 PM
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AndyPharmc
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Oct 2005
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461
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I agree with CK, and agreed with the link I posted.
America is not a special covenant nation with God. Even if you argue that a nation doesn't have be in covenant like Israel; any nation that sins will suffer the same fate; still, the focus on America makes it seem either special, like other nations aren't sinning just as much or more (as we are
specifying
America as where this is happening), and especially that America must have been less sinful in its founding (and thus "prospered" as a "blessing" by God for it), which is not true
(and which has always been my concern. All of these "judgment on America" polemics are based on focusing on only SOME sins; especially sexual and regarding reverence or lack of to God, as determining a nation's standing before God. But there were TEN Commandments, not just two or three, and
we don't get to pick and choose which ones God punishes for
. To do so is to do the same exact thing as everyone else who reject the two commandments we focus on! But
we're
the ones who should know better! James 2:10, 11 speaks
right to
this issue; even down to the sins that people think determine one's righteousness or guilt).
The truth is, all nations are equally sinful, and continue exist only by grace!
I used to listen to Johnathan Cahn, and really liked him on his radio show "The Two Nice Jewish Boys" years ago. I used to make special attempt to listen to him in person and shake his hand every year, in the annual "Big Splash" event in New Jersey.
So I'm surprised he's taking scriptures to interpret modern political events, now. He used to stay out of politics and focus on the Gospel.
As Hunt says, there may be
similarities
(or "
parallels
"), but we cannot just be tearing these passages out of their original context, to apply them to America. This is the same exact thing the date-setters do. Camping, the Korean group (1992), the 1988 guy, and even cults like Armstrong and the JW's earlier on. With many convincing arguments about symbols and events in Israel in scripture that seemed so much like "more than co-incidence" when applied to our time. And none of them ever came to pass. Cahn is just leaving out any exact Second-coming date, but it's the same exact method.
With all the talk about "America", most of the people doing this preaching against it are apart of America. But they think it's
everyone else
in America, while they are God's spokesmen to call everyone else back in line. While this is included in the Biblical paradigm of Israel (OT prophets, and NT Christ and the Church), I think stretching it to ourselves now to this extent has blinded people into finding scriptures to
vindicate their own pet issues they are unhappy with the country or world about
(even if some of them might be legitimate evils; still, our
focus
on some of them to the near exclusion of others is what makes it "pet"); and I had fallen to this myself (though my issues were different, and I focused more on conservative and past sins, rather than liberals and present sins).
But in a sinful world, everyone will be unhappy with something (and everyone wants some sort of "freebies"; i.e. more than they have actually "earned"), and in our natures, look to blame others. That's what everyone is doing, but if those who claim to be on God's side are truly "different" from others about anything; it should be in recognizing the sinfulness (manifest through bad behavior or wrong beliefs) of
all
men; not just some groups.
Michael Horton's
Beyond Culture Wars
(don't even know if it's still in print, and was followed up by one called
Christless Christianity
) is an excellent treatment of the issue.
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