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**thushioli** · 11-19-2005, 12:09 PM

Sounds about right.. violent madmen with basically a good heart. Who's Carvell, btw?

Carvell was Clinton's spin doctor (chief political/campaign advisor).

If you're emperor, that should be a given.

Not necessarily. I think a machiavellian spin doctor is way better than an ideologically partisan spin doctor for democratic politicians.

The reason is that when the ideological 'shit' hits the fan (as it is doing now), an ideologue spin doctor has only one tactic to suggest - attack the enemy (the best defense is understood as a good offense). A good machiavellian spin doctor has a wider bag of tricks to utilise if the situation calls for it.

That is to say, because Rove is an ideologue, the strategy choices are very limited. They must stay the course and attack anyone who thinks otherwise. That is the only strategy going on here. It has been constant from day one with respect to Iraq.

As you have noted, this 'strategy' has worked fairly well up until now. But the ideological shit is hitting the fan now - a good spin doctor might consider a different tactic... but not Rove. As it is, 'staying the course' and smearing the enemy (Democrats) leads down a dead-end street of defensive damage control. As soon as you are in damage control mode, the game is over. You've got to have the high ground to make this strategy work - making 'high ground' statements when standing on the 'low ground' just makes the President look silly.

Ergo, Rove is not a good spin doctor. And that I suppose is what is surprising to you (and to me as well).

it sure seems like they've been learning from somewhere.

Indeed. Fucking scary. Hermann Goering I believe is the origin of that line about 'repeating a big lie often enough'.

11-19-2005, 12:09 PM	#8
thushioli Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 351 Senior Member	Sounds about right.. violent madmen with basically a good heart. Who's Carvell, btw? Carvell was Clinton's spin doctor (chief political/campaign advisor). If you're emperor, that should be a given. Not necessarily. I think a machiavellian spin doctor is way better than an ideologically partisan spin doctor for democratic politicians. The reason is that when the ideological 'shit' hits the fan (as it is doing now), an ideologue spin doctor has only one tactic to suggest - attack the enemy (the best defense is understood as a good offense). A good machiavellian spin doctor has a wider bag of tricks to utilise if the situation calls for it. That is to say, because Rove is an ideologue, the strategy choices are very limited. They must stay the course and attack anyone who thinks otherwise. That is the only strategy going on here. It has been constant from day one with respect to Iraq. As you have noted, this 'strategy' has worked fairly well up until now. But the ideological shit is hitting the fan now - a good spin doctor might consider a different tactic... but not Rove. As it is, 'staying the course' and smearing the enemy (Democrats) leads down a dead-end street of defensive damage control. As soon as you are in damage control mode, the game is over. You've got to have the high ground to make this strategy work - making 'high ground' statements when standing on the 'low ground' just makes the President look silly. Ergo, Rove is not a good spin doctor. And that I suppose is what is surprising to you (and to me as well). it sure seems like they've been learning from somewhere. Indeed. Fucking scary. Hermann Goering I believe is the origin of that line about 'repeating a big lie often enough'.
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