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Old 05-14-2007, 03:28 AM   #19
cxddfrxc

Join Date
Oct 2005
Posts
417
Senior Member
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Yes, and one of them is from a website called Independence First! I'm sure the ICM one is accurate, but it's only one poll which shows just 52% in favour, not the 67% you boasted of.


Special to whom? Maybe to you not me. Culturally we are miles apart, for far too long has our children been spoon fed English/British history in schools that is now changing. The Union was formed on lies, bribes, deceit, threats etc etc etc it was in noway what the people wanted in Scotland. I am Scots never British it means nothing to me.
There are cultural differences, although I often feel closer as a Londoner to someone living in Glasgow than someone from Surrey. There was no real move for independence until the 1970s and it has only gathered real force in the last couple of years. The vast majority of the Scottish people have liked the benefits being part of the UK has offered them. I'm no nationalist but I think Britain is quite a special country. As part of a democratic country, you have every right to differ, even if most other Scottish people would disagree.


Part of the 5th largest economy blah, blah, blah in which about 90% of the wealth is held within London. Why would we want to be on the security council or be part of the G8? How many countries that have gained their independence from the British Empire remain as part of the commonwealth, oh and why would we want to remain as part of it?
I thought you agreed to trade in facts, not just hyperbole? 20% of the UK's wealth is made in London and the south-east subsidises the rest of the country. Without London, investment into the UK would be considerably less than it is now (with the UK having more foreign investment than any country in Europe).

Why would you want to be part of the two most important international institutions in the world? Perhaps because it gives a relatively small country huge influence in the way the world is run? Scotland probably would stay in the Commenwealth (if it still could exist). I believe that the Commenwealth, (like the Union) despite the less than savoury reasons for its creation - a way for Britain to keep some power over the decayed institution of an empire - can play a genuine force for good in the world. It has enabled Britain to keep close relations and adopt some responsibility for many desperately poor African countries and has, in recent years, used its influence to try and isolate Mugabe - with Zimbabwe kicked out of the Commenwealth. It has also been economically benefitial, for Britian and the other Commenwealth countries, enabling us to develop close relations with India in particular and through the Commenwealth Games, we have developed cultural connections across the world.

I am a citizen of Scotland i do not believe in unelected heads of state. This, "and indeed there is no certainty that England would stay in the prominent positions it holds in these institutions either" i thought it was Britain not England that held these positions? Sorry i forgot you do not know the difference between British/English.
I'm no believer in the monarchy either. I can't see how that can be an argument for independence, it's a rather different quesiton. Yes, it was Britain that held these positions - I was referring to a post-break up situation where England (and Wales) was an independent country. Whilst Scotland would definitely lose membership to these institutions, I was explaining that there was no guarantee England would be allowed to stay in them.

Who are you to say what powers we should have or should not have, you worry about your own country. As for Gordon Brown i think the by-election in Dunfermline was a sign then in the Scots elections his home area was won by the SNP. No-one in Scotland cares a hoot for a sellout, authoritarian, control freak like Brown, hell bent on selling his own identity to appease the middle Englanders for personal gain.
Britain is my country. As I have already said, if Scotland were to vote for independence, that would be a decision, however stupid, that should be respected. Labour probably got more votes than the SNP and the elections were seen as a protest against Blair rather than a vote for independence - I don't really see how you can say that no-one cares about Brown, especially when polls showed his imput boosted Labour up by nearly 10 points.


England's Armed Forces? British/English one in the same?
Again, I'm speaking about a post-break up scenario. Don't be so quick to bite.

Figures for this £5000 in council tax? Did you take them from the GERS report? I think you will find a much more complex and precise report claims we would be £7000 a head better off. Yes the highest record of employment that's classic, since when, Thatcher? We had no jobs under Thatcher now we have piss paying jobs under Blair and Co. How can Ireland, Norway, Iceland etc etc etc all be doing so much better than Scotland as small independent nations?
My figures were from the Times and Guardian newspapers. Perhaps they took them from the GERS report, I don't know. Could you at least mention the name of this "much more complex and precise report"? Blair's government has brought the lowest rates of unemployment since the mid-1970s. It's ridiculous to suggest that the Labour government has been anything but good for the economy and after introducing the minimum wage in 1998, pay is higher than ever. I'd be very interested to see your information showing that the Iceland is "doing so much better" than Scotland. Norway has better public services because it's a Scandinavian social democracy - independence won't necessarily mean that. As the Balkans and Slovakia show, independence isn't always a ticket to economic prosperity.
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