DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Estonian-Russian crisis

**Emedgella** · 05-15-2007, 05:37 PM

Eugenious
I think you making your opinion by reading propaganda materials.

Yes WebErr in your world Propaganda only exists in the west, Putin is peaceful reformer, 2+2=5 and Earth is flat.

'Vertical of power' have relation to regional direction.

Actually - not. Now "Единая Россия" [United Russia] - strongest political party. UR and Putin support each other and together have influence to any aspect of political life. But their influence in not control.
Vertical of power has exactly to do with control, it's direct control of Kremlin over the regions and of all resources in those regions. United Russia was created by the Kremlin to support the Kremlin. Nothing else, they have no ideology, just blind support for the President.
I like Fradkov much more. He is not perfect and making mistakes sometimes, but he is fine prime minister and he making his work well. Name one thing that he did to support your claim that he is a fine prime minister.
When you start talking about digits, I start crying.

I can answer, why "they scared".
In that marches going НБП (Nationalist-Bolshvist Party) - skinheads - they could start mass destruction in whole territory of Moscow. Nobody knew how many skinheads come to this march, and city government need to ensure order in the streets of Moskow. And, of course, Kasparov use this moment to speak about "scared bloody scary regime".

Answer me: why Kasparov have friendship to nationalist-bolshevils? What reason? Is he support Nationalism? Is he supptort Bolshevism?
Kasparov just a dirty tricker, using any instrument, whatever it is. Yeah, you should cry - truth hurts sometimes.
NPB and skinheads are two different things completely. Skinheads are not an organized political group they are just a loose conflagration of criminals who are anti-social in their behavior. NPB is a genuine political group that has a right under freedom of expression to exist, Limonov has publicly spoken out against any kind of physical violence and resisting the authorities. He's a fine writer and a dissenter that like Kasparov wants to resist the authoritarian structure of the government and change Russia for the better.
I can. I do.

Russia is not Zimbabve or Nigeria.
First reason is highest level of education in Russia. As more educated nation as hard to realize dictatorship.
Second reason is much more freedom in Russia then newspapers talking about. Just look to the face of facts: more and more TV-channels, Internet sites, Radio channels. What kind of "Zimbabwe" do you see here?
And third, final reason, is Russia going up in any aspect of life. How can it be if we are "Zimbabwe"?
Please, stop talking about Zimbabwe like about example of bad life. There are living people, who proud of their country. Soviet Union was very well educated yet dictatorship was in place for over 70 years. Now how is it different under Putin? When you are afraid of the press and censor all the tv channels you're a weak minded and authoritarian which Putin is. He is afraid of little demonstrations of any kind of criticism, he is a classic story of a Dictator. The reason I compare Russia to Zimbabwe and Nigeria is because the same things happened there, dictators rolled back democracy and established authoritarianism. Putin is doing this too, how does it feel to live in a corrupt, unfree, society WEBERR?

We can. We already build foundation.

(And continue building first floors.)
Actually your "the order is just another name for TYRANNY" make me think about your mind... Order is order. Tyranny is tyranny. It is independent terms.
S.U. stood "BANKRUPT" in 1980's (thanks to "Perestroika").
Chaos was in 1990's in Yeltsin period.
But main chaos in your head - you entangle it all. The order YOU are talking about as in; censorship, economic and political nationalism, control of everything is the definition of TYRANNY. Ever read 1984? WEBERR YOU SHOULD.

and chaos in the 1990's was the result of 1980's,when everything is inefficiently run state supported YOU HAVE CHAOS when the purse strings are tightened.
I already said about upgrading ANY aspect.
Knowledge of Soviet Science was not lost. Now we reconstruct it all. We inherit powerful system of Soviet education. We have very nice technics and buildings, inherits from fallen S.U. That is past of our parents. We save it in the times of chaos and it give us new future.
Chaos of 90's give new theme to our Art. Cinema and Literature awaking too.
"Any aspect of our life" mean any aspect of our life.

Nothing is awaking , Russia has no culture now - everything is destroyed just like the beautiful buildings in Moscow and St.Pete everything is crushed . You don't have any technology nor science, Russia lost all it's might in 10 years. Everything is rotten and all efforts to restore it are destroyed by the all purvasive corruption. Look at the army it's a hazing broken collection of misfits and torturers. Look at Bulava failure, look at Kursk submarine, look at weekly reports of consripts being killed. Look at your REALITY WEBERR WAKE UP.
Russia warns of AIDS epidemic, 1.3 mln with HIV

We have mush more freedom TV-channels than Estonia.

What kind of freedom in Estonia with nationalist government?
Why Estonian better for work in Estonia than Russian?
How many Russians you see in Estonian "freedom" TV-channels?
How many Russians you see in government?
Russians in Estonia have less rights than blacks in U.S. in the start of XX century.
But Estonia have status of "democratic country"! What a nonsense?!
Then Hitler was democrat. There you go comparing Estonia which is part of the European Union and fastest growing euro economy to Hitler. Again discrediting yourself in the eyes of all readers. Estonia has a participatory democracy where everything has a voice, if THOSE RUSSIANS HAVE IT SO BAD WHY DON'T THEY DEMONSTRATE BEFORE THIS? WHY NOTHING HEARD ABOUT THEIR PLIGHT? BECAUSE THE RUSSIANS IN ESTONIA LIVE BETTER AND MORE PROSPEROUS THEN IN RUSSIA. MORE MONEY IS MADE IN ESTONIA BY RUSSIANS.

Estonia move one monument and strike in the heart of Russian community in Estonia. It's look like to kill president in U.S. These Russans have no representative in government and have not civilian rank. Estonia close access to this monument in 8-9 of May and strike to our veterans - old men and women.
Official reaction of our government was too much soft and our nation start reacting much strong.
Personally I hate nationalism and especially nationalism in Estonia. Estonian government have a result what they go to. Moving a monuments to your oppressors is like killing president? Was Soviet Union a cult? Can people not think on their own? Can they see objectively or do they just follow whatever Russian TV tells them? Do you see?
Estonia suffered under Soviet Union and you cannot impose Russian history on them, they have the right to move monuments ESTONIA IS NOT RUSSIAN TERRITORY. What would you like WebErr for Russian tanks to go into Estonia? To stop all economic connections with Estonia? Do you know 1/3 of Estonian GDP is by Russians? Do you know Russia only hurts it's own people by treating Estonia badly? What kind of primitive government allows assault on EMBASSY of a COUNTRY ??? NASHI ARE LIKE STARVED ANIMALS UNLEASHED ...Where are they when they moved the monument in Khimky? Huh I THOUGHT SO WEBERR YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE.

Here, READ

Estonia begins to feel pinch of Russian 'hidden sanctions'
Massive DDoS attacks target Estonia; Russia accused
PUTIN’S DOUBLE TRIUMPH NOT YET IN THE BAG
Тайная жизнь «кремлевского комсомола» (ru)
Русские в Эстонии (russians in estonia) READ THIS WEBERR RUSSIANS ARE NOT LEAVING ESTONIA BECAUSE LIFE IS BETTER THERE

The basic Facts.

The bronze soldier "was not taken down", "has not been sawed up", and had already been transferred . Remains "have not been profaned", they were exhumed for reburial and identification.
Blackmail, insults and threats are not normative diplomatic practice. The state leaders are obliged to realize that consequences of similar actions for the country can be catastrophic. The conflict to small Estonia can quite lead to serious problems from EU and NATO.
The sovereignty assumes non-interference to internal affairs. This concept has been accepted by Kremlin exclusively and unilaterally.
The Estonian politicians are not "fascists".
Use of the youth organizations in actions of political vandalism, to put it mildly, immorally.
According to positions of the Viennese convention of 1961, the state is obliged to provide safety of diplomatic representatives in the territory.

05-15-2007, 05:37 PM	#32
Emedgella Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 465 Senior Member	Eugenious I think you making your opinion by reading propaganda materials. Yes WebErr in your world Propaganda only exists in the west, Putin is peaceful reformer, 2+2=5 and Earth is flat. 'Vertical of power' have relation to regional direction. Actually - not. Now "Единая Россия" [United Russia] - strongest political party. UR and Putin support each other and together have influence to any aspect of political life. But their influence in not control. Vertical of power has exactly to do with control, it's direct control of Kremlin over the regions and of all resources in those regions. United Russia was created by the Kremlin to support the Kremlin. Nothing else, they have no ideology, just blind support for the President. I like Fradkov much more. He is not perfect and making mistakes sometimes, but he is fine prime minister and he making his work well. Name one thing that he did to support your claim that he is a fine prime minister. When you start talking about digits, I start crying. I can answer, why "they scared". In that marches going НБП (Nationalist-Bolshvist Party) - skinheads - they could start mass destruction in whole territory of Moscow. Nobody knew how many skinheads come to this march, and city government need to ensure order in the streets of Moskow. And, of course, Kasparov use this moment to speak about "scared bloody scary regime". Answer me: why Kasparov have friendship to nationalist-bolshevils? What reason? Is he support Nationalism? Is he supptort Bolshevism? Kasparov just a dirty tricker, using any instrument, whatever it is. Yeah, you should cry - truth hurts sometimes. NPB and skinheads are two different things completely. Skinheads are not an organized political group they are just a loose conflagration of criminals who are anti-social in their behavior. NPB is a genuine political group that has a right under freedom of expression to exist, Limonov has publicly spoken out against any kind of physical violence and resisting the authorities. He's a fine writer and a dissenter that like Kasparov wants to resist the authoritarian structure of the government and change Russia for the better. I can. I do. Russia is not Zimbabve or Nigeria. First reason is highest level of education in Russia. As more educated nation as hard to realize dictatorship. Second reason is much more freedom in Russia then newspapers talking about. Just look to the face of facts: more and more TV-channels, Internet sites, Radio channels. What kind of "Zimbabwe" do you see here? And third, final reason, is Russia going up in any aspect of life. How can it be if we are "Zimbabwe"? Please, stop talking about Zimbabwe like about example of bad life. There are living people, who proud of their country. Soviet Union was very well educated yet dictatorship was in place for over 70 years. Now how is it different under Putin? When you are afraid of the press and censor all the tv channels you're a weak minded and authoritarian which Putin is. He is afraid of little demonstrations of any kind of criticism, he is a classic story of a Dictator. The reason I compare Russia to Zimbabwe and Nigeria is because the same things happened there, dictators rolled back democracy and established authoritarianism. Putin is doing this too, how does it feel to live in a corrupt, unfree, society WEBERR? We can. We already build foundation. (And continue building first floors.) Actually your "the order is just another name for TYRANNY" make me think about your mind... Order is order. Tyranny is tyranny. It is independent terms. S.U. stood "BANKRUPT" in 1980's (thanks to "Perestroika"). Chaos was in 1990's in Yeltsin period. But main chaos in your head - you entangle it all. The order YOU are talking about as in; censorship, economic and political nationalism, control of everything is the definition of TYRANNY. Ever read 1984? WEBERR YOU SHOULD. and chaos in the 1990's was the result of 1980's,when everything is inefficiently run state supported YOU HAVE CHAOS when the purse strings are tightened. I already said about upgrading ANY aspect. Knowledge of Soviet Science was not lost. Now we reconstruct it all. We inherit powerful system of Soviet education. We have very nice technics and buildings, inherits from fallen S.U. That is past of our parents. We save it in the times of chaos and it give us new future. Chaos of 90's give new theme to our Art. Cinema and Literature awaking too. "Any aspect of our life" mean any aspect of our life. Nothing is awaking , Russia has no culture now - everything is destroyed just like the beautiful buildings in Moscow and St.Pete everything is crushed . You don't have any technology nor science, Russia lost all it's might in 10 years. Everything is rotten and all efforts to restore it are destroyed by the all purvasive corruption. Look at the army it's a hazing broken collection of misfits and torturers. Look at Bulava failure, look at Kursk submarine, look at weekly reports of consripts being killed. Look at your REALITY WEBERR WAKE UP. Russia warns of AIDS epidemic, 1.3 mln with HIV We have mush more freedom TV-channels than Estonia. What kind of freedom in Estonia with nationalist government? Why Estonian better for work in Estonia than Russian? How many Russians you see in Estonian "freedom" TV-channels? How many Russians you see in government? Russians in Estonia have less rights than blacks in U.S. in the start of XX century. But Estonia have status of "democratic country"! What a nonsense?! Then Hitler was democrat. There you go comparing Estonia which is part of the European Union and fastest growing euro economy to Hitler. Again discrediting yourself in the eyes of all readers. Estonia has a participatory democracy where everything has a voice, if THOSE RUSSIANS HAVE IT SO BAD WHY DON'T THEY DEMONSTRATE BEFORE THIS? WHY NOTHING HEARD ABOUT THEIR PLIGHT? BECAUSE THE RUSSIANS IN ESTONIA LIVE BETTER AND MORE PROSPEROUS THEN IN RUSSIA. MORE MONEY IS MADE IN ESTONIA BY RUSSIANS. Estonia move one monument and strike in the heart of Russian community in Estonia. It's look like to kill president in U.S. These Russans have no representative in government and have not civilian rank. Estonia close access to this monument in 8-9 of May and strike to our veterans - old men and women. Official reaction of our government was too much soft and our nation start reacting much strong. Personally I hate nationalism and especially nationalism in Estonia. Estonian government have a result what they go to. Moving a monuments to your oppressors is like killing president? Was Soviet Union a cult? Can people not think on their own? Can they see objectively or do they just follow whatever Russian TV tells them? Do you see? Estonia suffered under Soviet Union and you cannot impose Russian history on them, they have the right to move monuments ESTONIA IS NOT RUSSIAN TERRITORY. What would you like WebErr for Russian tanks to go into Estonia? To stop all economic connections with Estonia? Do you know 1/3 of Estonian GDP is by Russians? Do you know Russia only hurts it's own people by treating Estonia badly? What kind of primitive government allows assault on EMBASSY of a COUNTRY ??? NASHI ARE LIKE STARVED ANIMALS UNLEASHED ...Where are they when they moved the monument in Khimky? Huh I THOUGHT SO WEBERR YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE. Here, READ Estonia begins to feel pinch of Russian 'hidden sanctions' Massive DDoS attacks target Estonia; Russia accused PUTIN’S DOUBLE TRIUMPH NOT YET IN THE BAG Тайная жизнь «кремлевского комсомола» (ru) Русские в Эстонии (russians in estonia) READ THIS WEBERR RUSSIANS ARE NOT LEAVING ESTONIA BECAUSE LIFE IS BETTER THERE The basic Facts. The bronze soldier "was not taken down", "has not been sawed up", and had already been transferred . Remains "have not been profaned", they were exhumed for reburial and identification. Blackmail, insults and threats are not normative diplomatic practice. The state leaders are obliged to realize that consequences of similar actions for the country can be catastrophic. The conflict to small Estonia can quite lead to serious problems from EU and NATO. The sovereignty assumes non-interference to internal affairs. This concept has been accepted by Kremlin exclusively and unilaterally. The Estonian politicians are not "fascists". Use of the youth organizations in actions of political vandalism, to put it mildly, immorally. According to positions of the Viennese convention of 1961, the state is obliged to provide safety of diplomatic representatives in the territory.
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