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**JamesTornC** · 12-29-2009, 09:16 PM

It is a given with being Christian. It's part and parcel with the ****ing religion. You want to bash on God for letting bad things happen, but you ignore the eternal salvation part of the equation.

No, I'm not bashing god for letting bad things happen, because IMV there is no god. Full stop. **** happens. The whole 'eternal salvation' fluff is just a delusional irrelevance.

Ignoring other religions, either God exists, and there is an afterlife, or God doesn't exist and there isn't one. If there's an afterlife then natural disasters are no big deal. If there's no afterlife, because there's no God, then natural disasters suck, but they're no one's fault. "natural disasters suck, but they're no one's fault" - there, you said it. Tragic, but not metaphysical.

No one treats it as a cause for celebration. Nobody said it was a cause for celebration. What I said was that it is a way of shaking people out of their self-centered ruts. So not celebration, you say, but still positive. I'd argue that people are quite capable of being horrified by a tsunami, a holocaust, or a WW1 trench-warfare massacre nightmare without needing religion to prompt them. The original argument was that god has these things happen because of what we can learn, and how we can react. I'm arguing that there is no sense in letting these things happen for such reasons, as the suffering is far too much. If the best way god has is to allow hundreds of thousands to die, just to shake things up then, well .. there's something seriously wrong somewhere.

If God doesn't exist, then it's irrelevant. Something that doesn't exist isn't at fault for earthquakes or the tsunamis they cause. If God does exist, then the question of evil needs an answer. I gave you the textbook answer and you missed the point completely. Textbook? Not a textbook that is recognised outside of the specific belief-system in question. You'd be right if you'd restricted it to the bit where you said "Something that doesn't exist isn't at fault for earthquakes or the tsunamis they cause".

12-29-2009, 09:16 PM	#21
JamesTornC Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 319 Senior Member	It is a given with being Christian. It's part and parcel with the **ing religion. You want to bash on God for letting bad things happen, but you ignore the eternal salvation part of the equation. No, I'm not bashing god for letting bad things happen, because IMV there is no god. Full stop. ** happens. The whole 'eternal salvation' fluff is just a delusional irrelevance. Ignoring other religions, either God exists, and there is an afterlife, or God doesn't exist and there isn't one. If there's an afterlife then natural disasters are no big deal. If there's no afterlife, because there's no God, then natural disasters suck, but they're no one's fault. "natural disasters suck, but they're no one's fault" - there, you said it. Tragic, but not metaphysical. No one treats it as a cause for celebration. Nobody said it was a cause for celebration. What I said was that it is a way of shaking people out of their self-centered ruts. So not celebration, you say, but still positive. I'd argue that people are quite capable of being horrified by a tsunami, a holocaust, or a WW1 trench-warfare massacre nightmare without needing religion to prompt them. The original argument was that god has these things happen because of what we can learn, and how we can react. I'm arguing that there is no sense in letting these things happen for such reasons, as the suffering is far too much. If the best way god has is to allow hundreds of thousands to die, just to shake things up then, well .. there's something seriously wrong somewhere. If God doesn't exist, then it's irrelevant. Something that doesn't exist isn't at fault for earthquakes or the tsunamis they cause. If God does exist, then the question of evil needs an answer. I gave you the textbook answer and you missed the point completely. Textbook? Not a textbook that is recognised outside of the specific belief-system in question. You'd be right if you'd restricted it to the bit where you said "Something that doesn't exist isn't at fault for earthquakes or the tsunamis they cause".
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