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**medio** · 12-08-2011, 10:25 AM

i 100% agree with you. my high school teacher came in one day and said as he was riding his bike across the bridge that connects louisville to indy and for the first time he noticed he was not crossing the same river he did yesterday. the water is always different, the mud under the water is different. its a totally different river then the day before. im pretty sure he also realized the same is true for everything, everything changes just like the "self". but my problem is, is it still not a river, a body of moving water. the "self" changes from the start but it still had a start right? like if you put up a wall you start from the bottom and work your way up, the soul starts at the beginning and transforms, but its still apart of everything right.

i can see the self as being one with everything, but not so much non existent. if that make sense.

The part I put in bold is very interesting. From a Buddhist perspective, particularly a Zen perspective, the river wouldn't have a "start" in the purest sense. I don't fully understand this myself but I hope I can offer some insight. Before the river was there it existed in a different form. Maybe in rain clouds and before that it was in a different form you could trace it back forever we can't find the start we can't find the end. If there was a beginning of the universe then from a scientific perspective the matter that is that river existed from the beginning just in different forms. The same is true of everything. Where does it begin?

12-08-2011, 10:25 AM	#12
medio Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 543 Senior Member	i 100% agree with you. my high school teacher came in one day and said as he was riding his bike across the bridge that connects louisville to indy and for the first time he noticed he was not crossing the same river he did yesterday. the water is always different, the mud under the water is different. its a totally different river then the day before. im pretty sure he also realized the same is true for everything, everything changes just like the "self". but my problem is, is it still not a river, a body of moving water. the "self" changes from the start but it still had a start right? like if you put up a wall you start from the bottom and work your way up, the soul starts at the beginning and transforms, but its still apart of everything right. i can see the self as being one with everything, but not so much non existent. if that make sense. The part I put in bold is very interesting. From a Buddhist perspective, particularly a Zen perspective, the river wouldn't have a "start" in the purest sense. I don't fully understand this myself but I hope I can offer some insight. Before the river was there it existed in a different form. Maybe in rain clouds and before that it was in a different form you could trace it back forever we can't find the start we can't find the end. If there was a beginning of the universe then from a scientific perspective the matter that is that river existed from the beginning just in different forms. The same is true of everything. Where does it begin?
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