[freediscountplanrrxip]

Please excuse my ignorance, but is there any objective way to verify that what you and other practicing Buddhists experience in "Jhana" is the mind, not the soul??

thanks Bundokji

the scriptures report the Buddha experienced all conditioned phenomena to be impermanent (arising & falling away) and thus concluded they could not be a (permanent) 'soul' or 'self' ('atman') because they arise & fall away

regards



the Buddha said:

If anyone were to say, 'The mind is the self,' that wouldn't be tenable. The arising & falling away of the mind are discerned. And when its arising & falling away are discerned, it would follow that 'My self arises & falls away.' That's why it wouldn't be tenable if anyone were to say, 'The mind is the self.' So the mind is not-self.

If anyone were to say, 'mind objects are the self,' that wouldn't be tenable. The arising & falling away of mind objects are discerned. And when its arising & falling away are discerned, it would follow that 'My self arises & falls away.' That's why it wouldn't be tenable if anyone were to say, 'Mind objects are the self.' So mind objects are not-self.

If anyone were to say, 'The mind consciousness is the self,' that wouldn't be tenable. The arising & falling away of mind consciousness are discerned. And when its arising & falling away are discerned, it would follow that 'My self arises & falls away.' That's why it wouldn't be tenable if anyone were to say, 'Mind consciousness is the self.' So mind consciousness is not-self.

If anyone were to say, 'Feeling [at the mind] is the self,' that wouldn't be tenable. The arising & falling away of feelings is discerned. And when its arising & falling away are discerned, it would follow that 'My self arises & falls away.' That's why it wouldn't be tenable if anyone were to say, 'Feeling is the self.' So feelings [at the mind] is not-self.

Chachakka Sutta: The Six Sextets