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=sangom

i am all for widow re-marriage.chinna veedu set up.

I am sorry to interfere in a debate charged with a good amount of emotion unrelated to the subject matter in question, but one doubt and some observations of mine. welcome.


The question, how are widow remarriage and chinnaveedu set up related? I had so far been under the impression that the former is a legal one, though not sanctioned by orthodox brahminism while the latter is outside the purview of the Hindu personal law. Am I wrong?
as per legal issue,its a crime.


Now, my observations. It is true that NN's observations about the treatment meted out to TB widows has improved a lot but there are sensitive issues still lurking. The widows now cannot be distinguished unless one has personal knowledge of the person or the special ability to see whether she wears a thaali or a simple gold chain. It is difficult even for women to do so. I know a few cases where a group of women visit a house, all are given "manjal-kumkumam-some gift item" when they take leave, and later some one from the group or otherwise informs the guest that X in the group was a widow. Even now there are women who fear that some evil will befall them as a result of giving manjal-kumkumam to a widow. We (my wife and I) once tried to convince such a superstitious person saying that there is a custom (this is also traditional, just like sumangali prArthhanai) in some families to include a widow - custom required a 'pATTi' with shaven head and all that as must, but since it is quite difficult to find such people, they are inviting widows - in the women honoured by Sumangali praarthhanai ritual but they call it "athiSaya poNDugaL" (I am not sure if I have the correct name), but her reply was even in such families they will not give manjaL-kumkumam to the widows so invited!) This function is done even today before the sons' upanayanam, marriage and seemantam, and is not applicable for the functions related to daughters. It, therefore, appears that even though people had to conform to the strict requirements of the society in the treatment of a woman on her losing her husband, some elders even in those days wanted to give a token recognition of their role also. thank you for validating my impressions succintly.

The discussion topic being about thirumangalayam, it is not an item in a vedic marriage. It was a later introduction into the brahmin community in the south, from the ancient Tamil practice of tying a "tALi" - piece of palmyrah leaf, the one which was used to write our grantHas; the tALi used to have the name of the husband written on it. This was to give notice to others that this particular woman was the property of so-and-so. (Incidentally, I think a similar scheme was followed in the early days of converting the SUdras into Christianity, because I remember seeing , in my young days, this sort of tALiyOlai pendant tied by a black thread worn on their necks by women as also some men, from the working class; being abjectly poor, they wore no other ornament.) This was adapted by the vEdic people who came south and it has come to be nurtured and bolstered to an unimaginable degree of importance by all possible means. But that should not preclude a discussion about how and when this practice came into our community. it appears to me,all of are very knowledgeable of life during vedic time.and when questioned when or who wrote the vedas,we all chirp saying its apoureshyam,time immemorial.as far as my common sense dictates,we as human evolved over a period of time.we lived as humans without wearing a single shred of cloth,to beginwith.slowly started to hide our private parts and so on....

the crux is,wearing a thirumangalyam is symbol of a woman being married to another man,so plz accord due respect.now,if women themselves today revolt and say,its all man made not woman made laws,why we shud listen to this crap,better for men to wear thirumangalyam and trot around,displaying i am married man,women stop flirting with me,as i will yield to temptations.


Incidentally, when the Shivsena, itself owing allegiance to Hinduism, started an anti-madrasi agitation (I don't remember the year but it was during the 70's or 80's) women from the south stopped wearing taali whenever they went out and restarted it only after the agitation ceased. women removed south indian style thaali and wore maharastrian style thaali.its not that they did not have a thaali at all.for fear of physical intimidation,as well as pyschological intimidations by goons of shiva sena,this has happened.

One last doubt, as a new, junior member - what differentiates the patrons in this forum from the other members, pl.? number of posts,i think.