[mr.supervideogoodfd]

Dear Sri Venkataraman,

Thank you for your compliments.

I admire and appreciate every reference to the Vedas and Scriptures that scholars like yourself and Anbu make.

At the same time I feel it is important to open up those Vedic concepts for discussion and debate so that we may live our lives as intelligent human beings and not automatons that meekly concede the "greatness" of Vedas without understanding why they are great.

If there are certain things that work in favor of spiritual evolution then we must study the context under which such things work. Every generation should find its own answers to questions that are important to human kind and our generation need not be an exception.

So while I respect the Scriptures I am not over-awed by them. I hope that does not come across as offensive to anybody. I am here to question, to understand.

When we discussed the body, I don't believe we talked about the actual frame of the body as we did the social conditions under which that body has to operate.

Here is where I think I sense a confusion.

When we discuss material CONDITIONS we are not talking about the physical frame per se. We are discussing the factors that influence the mind in a positive way or a negative way. You'd agree with me when I say that nobody feels like thinking about God or attaining God when treated badly. The word 'badly' can mean different things for different people. In extreme cases it is physical abuse but in other quite 'normal' cases it translates to things like not taking the woman's point of view in decision making. Or not respecting the woman's ideas, feelings and views on things.

If men took these things seriously I doubt whether there would be such a big Eve-teasing problem in the country. For those men in this forum who believe that physical things are immaterial I wish to express that it is utterly humiliating to be at the receiving end of an Eve-teaser. One feels filthy and dirty beyond description - and for no particular reason other than just being a woman.

Please tell me, if I go out to work/school by bus and I am hounded by Eve-teasers do you think I will feel like praying when I get back home?

If I feel that I am too tired to make preparations for the next day's Homam do you think my father/brother/husband will be happy about it?

If I feel like I want to pursue higher studies because I am good at a certain subject do you think my father or my brother (if older) will not tell me that I should marry first and if my husband permits I can study further?

These issues are not necessarily related. But I can think of countless such issues where women's lives are tied strictly around men's lives. But in the interest of space I restrict myself.

The great Manu, the law-giver, equated women with Shudras saying that they are incapable of anything and must be 'kept under control'.

Do you honestly believe that such ideas do not influence Brahmin women's attitudes towards the religion/philosophy/community?

Or do you think that by ignoring the issue or looking the other way the problem is going to get resolved?

Or do you think that women, in this day and age, are going to be motivated to choose a position of subordination?

If religion and social customs don't make them feel good about being part of the community I will state right here and right now that there is no hope for the community.

It is necessary to understand what the scriptures mean for women too. Men tend to be invisible to their own position because they are getting the better end of the deal.

It is all too comforting to slip into the folds of Sanskrit verses and concepts without stopping to examine what exactly they mean and to whom.

I trust and hope that this esteemed forum will show the way in opening up those unexamined ideas.

Everything is learning!

I hope everyone know we have many discussions and many threads going on in this forum to discuss and understand the given ‘Topic’ towards knowing/understand and further refine the subject matter we are dealing with for ourselves and for the community as a whole.

I feel it is quiet healthy to discuss / argue on any subject which we have taken for discussion. If a subject matter is ‘Athman’ then the discussion would be around ‘Athman’, if it is about ‘Bhakthi’ then the discussion would be around ‘Bhakthi’ so as here the topic of discussion is ‘Gothram’ hence we need to go for some scientific search or whatever for that matter, just for the sake of understanding.

I truly agree with Sri Anbu’s view, even I have mentioned in one of my posting in this thread as “The point here is not about the physical structure or frame of male body or female body….” As per the view of Sri Anbu, the body is to enjoy particular Vaasana it can be either male or female this point too I have quoted, as “Jeeva is neuter, there is nothing called Male or Female Jeeva!” Every Jeeva’s body in a given ‘Jenma’ would depend on its Vaasana and to enjoy that Vaasana it needs a body! It can be a human body or animal body! And many more…indeed every topic we take for discussion is a very deep and wide topic! I would say spending our thoughts in a given topic would enrich our understanding. But of course we know what was said by Sri Adi Shankara, when asked to him, what is his final word/finding to this world?

“Yadhuktham Grantha Kotibhi Pravakashyami, Bhramha Sathyam Jagathmithya Jeevo Bhramvaiva na paraha:”

“There are innumerable sciences, innumerable ‘Vedas’, innumerable findings! But what all say is that the ultimate reality is the ‘Bhrmhan’ and the ultimate misunderstanding is considering this physical realm as truth that is because of the confusion of Jeeva”

(Some one may give a perfect and exact translation to the above said Vaakyam, but I have tried what I can in translating. The point is to understand what was told by Sri Adi Shankara thro this Vaakyam – ‘Sentence’)

Adi Shankara revealed this Vaakyam after knowing all the science, after discussing various topics with various people, after many dharga vaadham we know this very well! My point here is, yes we should realize in this Janma, “Janthoonaam Dhurlabham Pumsvam” [being human being is a highest form of physical attainment, and it is very ‘Dhrulabham’ rare, so don’t waste this Janma]– said by Sri Adi Shankara in ‘Viveka Choodamani’ , this continues but am not going to that topic here. But the bottom line is we should also know/ understand what had been taken for discussion at least to its satisfactory extent!

Chintana is a great person, I infer her yearning for knowing and sharing.
J

Hari Om
RV