[bestonlinepharmasy2]

If you're not South American or of South American descent, then this topic may be incomprehensible to you.

As a person from a Brazilian background, I've noticed that some Brazilians coin a Brazilian of Japanese descent as "Japanese", even if they're a fourth-generation Brazilian who can't speak a lick of Japanese.

For example, the other day, a Brazilian woman (of non-Japanese descent) was telling my parents a story about a couple in Brazil who were expecting, and just to clarify, neither the wife or husband had Japanese ancestry. She said that when their baby was born, the husband asked her why the baby was Japanese. In short, he suspected that she had fooled around with a nikkei. But, what puzzles me is that he referred to the baby as Japanese, when the baby is: #1) Brazilian, and #2) has a mother of non-Japanese descent.

What I don't understand is why some Brazilians, and I'm talking about a sizable percentage here, persist on referring to nikkei Brazilians as Japanese? The vast majority of nikkei Brazilians don't even speak Japanese. Also, many even go as far to refer to the admixed nikkei Brazilians as "Japanese" as well. Every time I hear a Brazilian refer to admixed nikkei as "uma mistura de brasileiros com japoneses", I cringe, because it makes absolutely no sense. I've read stories by many nikkei Brazilians, both unmixed and admixed, who get labeled as Japanese by many Brazilians. How come they're Japanese, yet Xuxa and Gisele are Brazilian? Why isn't Xuxa Austrian? Why isn't Gisele German? Why isn't Gugu Liberato Portuguese? Why isn't José Serra Italian? Why are they exceptions and yet not the Brazilians of Japanese and/or Asian descent? I find this lack of respect fundamentally racist.

I read that Peru is much more inclusive when it comes to their nikkei community. The Peruvian mentality is "todos somos peruanos". Is this sense of inclusion derived from the fact Peru has a larger percentage of people of Asian descent?

Most Americans will refer to any person born and raised in the States as American, regardless of their ancestry. Brazil promotes itself as a multiethnic society, but how come some of them make an exception when it comes to Asian Brazilians? I think it's obnoxiously hypocritical. As far as unity goes, Peru and the U.S. seem to be the most inclusive societies when it comes to their citizens.

[weO1bVp1]

From my point of view, Japanese Brazilians are treated like kings/queens when one compares their treatment over there with the one they receive on the Japanese islands. The latter can be as obnoxious as considering them foreigners even on the cases when the only thing that is not Japanese about the person is the first (non-Yamato) name.

[SHpuntik]

Brazil is the country with the biggest japanese diaspora in the world. Now, back in the day and unlike Peru, japs were the biggest asian community in Brazil by far (other asian peoples were basically unknown). Now, this affected the perception of asians brazilians have, hence, any people who look east asian (to be 100% clear: who has chinky eyes) is called japanese. Something similar (but on the inverse) happpens in Peru: Any person who looks asian is called 'chino' here regardless of origins. Our former president Alberto Fujimori (who's of japanese straction, in fact some even claim he was born in Japan) was called Chino too.

Here is his song:

[Eromereorybig]

In my experience USA is a country where one is first labeled by their race or ethnic background. There's been numerous members here that have talked about how "American" only refers to the white Anglos. Everybody else is a "blank-American", not really an "American." I don't think USA is a good example of an "inclusive" society because, like in another thread, most people consider it a salad-bowl rather than a melting pot. Everybody has their distinct groups and identify as blank-Americans. But that is just how the society is so I don't see it as racist or not, just different than the case of many Latin-Americans that identify solely by their nationality.

Does the same case happen in Brasil with other non-white ethnic groups as it does with the Japanese?

[Tauntenue]

From my point of view, Japanese Brazilians are treated like kings/queens when one compares their treatment over there with the one they receive on the Japanese islands. The latter can be as obnoxious as considering them foreigners even on the cases when the only thing that is not Japanese about the person is the first (non-Yamato) name.

It's not that they're harassed in Brazil, but it's just that I've seen Brazilians speak about them in a way that denies them equal acknowledgement as a fellow national. For example, if an unmixed yonsei Brazilian had a child with a Portuguese Brazilian, the child would be referred by many Brazilians as "a mixture of Brazilian and Japanese", which makes no sense. It's downplaying the nationality of nikkei as Brazilians. My point is that many perceive them as "less Brazilian" or "not truly Brazilian".

---------- Post added 2012-04-11 at 18:30 ----------

Brazil is the country with the biggest japanese diaspora in the world. Now, back in the day and unlike Peru, japs were the biggest asian community in Brazil by far (other asian peoples were basically unknown). Now, this affected the perception of asians brazilians have, hence, any people who look east asian (to be 100% clear: who has chinky eyes) is called japanese. Something similar (but on the inverse) happpens in Peru: Any person who looks asian is called 'chino' here regardless of origins. Our former president Alberto Fujimori (who's of japanese straction, in fact some even claim he was born in Japan) was called Chino too.

Here is his song:

I didn't know that. I thought Asian Peruvians were recognized as being equally Peruvian to everyone else.

In Brazil, you don't have to look 100% East Asian to be called japonês. You can be part East Asian and look racially ambiguous and it's likely that you'll still be labeled as Japanese by a sizable percentage of people.

---------- Post added 2012-04-11 at 18:40 ----------

In my experience USA is a country where one is first labeled by their race or ethnic background. There's been numerous members here that have talked about how "American" only refers to the white Anglos. Everybody else is a "blank-American", not really an "American." I don't think USA is a good example of an "inclusive" society because, like in another thread, most people consider it a salad-bowl rather than a melting pot. Everybody has their distinct groups and identify as blank-Americans. But that is just how the society is so I don't see it as racist or not, just different than the case of many Latin-Americans that identify solely by their nationality.

Does the same case happen in Brasil with other non-white ethnic groups as it does with the Japanese?

Minorities do get referred as blank-American here, but that's just to distinguish ancestry. Saying blank-American is not taken as a dismissal of their American nationality. Whites are not exempt from this, unless if you're in the south. Here in the northeast, people will use terms like Irish American, Italian American, and German American to describe their ethnicity. The east coast and west coast are pretty inclusive in my opinion. The south is probably an exception to this, since they're more traditionally racist and conservative.

In Brazil, it seems to only happen with Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, and Bolivians, from what I've read. Brazilians of Middle Eastern extraction are generally accepted as equally Brazilian, though.

[Coollabioto]

Whites are not exempt from this, unless if you're in the south. Here in the northeast, people will use terms like Irish American, Italian American, and German American to describe their ethnicity. The east coast and west coast are pretty inclusive in my opinion. The south is probably an exception to this, since they're more traditionally racist and conservative. Haha... more contradictory statements and stereotyping of southerners, by a guy who drove through East Tennessee once. Sure, your experiences of getting stared at in some restaurant off the freeway in Knoxville are totally valid, while my experiences with my white driver in Boston recommending extra TSA scrutiny for brown people after 9/11, as we were on our way to Logan Int'l, not representative.

[deermealec]

Haha... more contradictory statements and stereotyping of southerners, by a guy who drove through East Tennessee once. Sure, your experiences of getting stared at in some restaurant off the freeway in Knoxville are totally valid, while my experiences with my white driver in Boston recommending extra TSA scrutiny for brown people after 9/11, as we were on our way to Logan Int'l, not representative.

Your white driver is not a Bostonian. A New Hampshire resident who goes to work in the city is not a Bostonian. He most likely grew up in a homogenous community, given rural New Hampshire's lack of diversity.

[BlackBird]

Sure, excellent guess on your part, and I'm sure backed up by the home address and place of origin of patrons in that restaurant where you got the perceived cold shoulder for being either brown and/or gay. Face it, man, you generalize and stereotype southerners as racists and bigots. I happened to read in the past couple of days that Atlanta has one of the larger LGBT communities in the USA per capita. Does that exempt Atlanta from your generalizations at least?

[zU8KbeIU]

Sure, excellent guess on your part, and I'm sure backed up by the home address and place of origin of patrons in that restaurant where you got the perceived cold shoulder for being either brown and/or gay. Face it, man, you generalize and stereotype southerners as racists and bigots. I happened to read in the past couple of days that Atlanta has one of the larger LGBT communities in the USA per capita. Does that exempt Atlanta from your generalizations at least?

Atlanta is an exception. As segregated as Boston may be, visible racism is uncommon. The only parts of the city I may be out of place is the North End, which is dominated by prejudiced Italian Americans.

Brown? I'm black, kid. My ancestry is African and European, not South Asian. I find it laughable how you try to speak for my experiences... I grew up in Boston, and no, I do not get the cold shoulder, as Boston is very much a heterogeneous city. No one would look out of place in Boston, unless if they're an Australian aborigine. The fact is that the south is generally more racist and conservative on average than the rest of the country, no matter how much you try to veil that.

[v74ClzKY]

The facts derived from one trip you took down I-75. LOL at you calling me a kid, I'm 40 years old, a grown ass man, while you are a snot nosed 22 year old who took a road trip. I have been in Boston area many times. I have also known and worked with many people there. I also have a sister who has lived there for 10 years. Her fiancé is multi-generational Portuguese-American. You should have seen his face when I drove him through poor black parts of town when they visited, LOL. He's a typical young white lefty who talks about poverty but hasn't seen much of it. One of my best friends is Gujarati and earned his Masters in Computer Science from UMass 10 years ago. Another woman I worked with and had many candid discussions on local race relations is also Portuguese, married to a French-Canadian, and a self-described Masshole who moved to New Hampshire. You're here generalizing your parents' homeland based on some flimsy experiences or something you read on the Internet. I'm more inclined to believe what Malcolm Z says about how Japanese Brazilians are treated, since he is one, and he lives there. I hope he posts on this thread. You're a young opinionated Yankee American tourist. Since I can see how weak your southern US stereotypes are, I expect the same is true of your Brazilian ones.

[vforvandetta]

It isn't so surprising to me that the Japanese are considered "Japanese" first, and "Brazilian" second, though I didn't know of this till this thread. It's not surprising to me because the Japanese are very proud people and very race-conscious (I have heard it reported). Combine that with their WWII history of being fascist up the ass, and it makes plenty of sense.

[Ceakicknunk]

The facts derived from one trip you took down I-75. LOL at you calling me a kid, I'm 40 years old, a grown ass man, while you are a snot nosed 22 year old who took a road trip. I have been in Boston area many times. I have also known and worked with many people there. I also have a sister who has lived there for 10 years. Her fiancé is multi-generational Portuguese-American. You should have seen his face when I drove him through poor black parts of town when they visited, LOL. He's a typical young white lefty who talks about poverty but hasn't seen much of it. One of my best friends is Gujarati and earned his Masters in Computer Science from UMass 10 years ago. Another woman I worked with and had many candid discussions on local race relations is also Portuguese, married to a French-Canadian, and a self-described Masshole who moved to New Hampshire. You're here generalizing your parents' homeland based on some flimsy experiences or something you read on the Internet. I'm more inclined to believe what Malcolm Z says about how Japanese Brazilians are treated, since he is one, and he lives there. I hope he posts on this thread. You're a young opinionated Yankee American tourist. Since I can see how weak your southern US stereotypes are, I expect the same is true of your Brazilian ones.

It's clear I hit some kind of nerve to make you this butthurt. The fact that you, as a mixed-race person, even socialize with racists speaks volumes of your character, which is why I take whatever you say with a grain of salt.

I'm sure Malcolm Z is very familiar with what I'm talking about and I hope he posts on here as well. Like I said in my opening post:

If you're not South American or of South American descent, then this topic may be incomprehensible to you.

It's clear from your animosity that you have no notion of what I'm talking about, which thereby rules your input unwarranted.

[wbeachcomber]

I "socialize with racists" from Massachusetts because I work for a living. Get back with me in 18 years and let me know how your anti-racist agenda worked out for you in your career path.

[L6RLnyfl]

When I went to the UK, I was at a club with an Austrian and a Brazilian friend. The last one was a girl of Japanese ancestry -she was like a tanned person with Asian features-.. I met some Brazilian girls at the club, and I told them I was there with another Brazilian girl! They told me like "Oh, but she's Japanese".. and I was kind of thinking: "She was born in Brazil, her parents are in Brazil for many years, and she doesn't even speak Japanese"..

It was really weird, now that you mention it..

I've got friends who look really Black or Asian.. but we would never say things such as "Oh but you're not Chilean, you're African".. or "Oh but you're not Chilean, you're Korean"..

[Extipletape]

When I went to the UK, I was at a club with an Austrian and a Brazilian friend. The last one was a girl of Japanese ancestry -she was like a tanned person with Asian features-.. I met some Brazilian girls at the club, and I told them I was there with another Brazilian girl! They told me like "Oh, but she's Japanese".. and I was kind of thinking: "She was born in Brazil, her parents are in Brazil for many years, and she doesn't even speak Japanese"..

It was really weird, now that you mention it..

I've got friends who look really Black or Asian.. but we would never say things such as "Oh but you're not Chilean, you're African".. or "Oh but you're not Chilean, you're Korean"..

That's exactly what I'm talking about.

[MondayBlues]

I didn't know that. I thought Asian Peruvians were recognized as being equally Peruvian to everyone else.

They are. Chino is a nickname for people who has chinky eyes. I have a good friend who's mestizo (0% asian) and he's called 'El Chino' cause he has chinky eyes. My mom and dad both had chinky eyes and they were called 'la china' and 'el chino' respectively.

[Stappipsy]

Marllon for someone who has never truly lived in Brazil (you left when you were 3 years old) you seem to be quite a scholar on us, don't you? The fact that you have Brazilian ancestry does not make you an expert on it, not at all. You live in the US, and the Brazilians you deal with are people who live in the American society and therefore are heavily influenced by it. But I agree that Brazilians tend to single out Japanese, as if they were not really Brazilian, when it comes to naming people or classifying them, for the most part. When it comes to dating, the concrete aspect of the issue (and more relevant IMO), Brazilians tend not to care, and as far as I know since the Japanese came here it has been more or less like that.

The Japanese in Brazil are generally quiet and do not show up what they really think usually, in my experience. As a matter of fact, however, I have never seen any of them dating pred. African women. They usually keep to their own or else they date pred. Euro looking Brazilian women. I think it is fair to say that just like other groups, they have their fair share of prejudices as well, even if they don't show it. They are for the most part very self controlled, I haven't seen anyone more orderly and disciplined than they are. They never talk loud or rudely. I have never seen any of them with inadequate or inappropriate behaviours either. They generally become successful, be it as small farmers, doctors or any other activity they engage in. All in all, they are among the ones I admire the most here in Brazil, even if - which is to be expected - they also have their faults.

[orillaVar]

If you're not South American or of South American descent, then this topic may be incomprehensible to you.

As a person from a Brazilian background, I've noticed that some Brazilians coin a Brazilian of Japanese descent as "Japanese", even if they're a fourth-generation Brazilian who can't speak a lick of Japanese.

For example, the other day, a Brazilian woman (of non-Japanese descent) was telling my parents a story about a couple in Brazil who were expecting, and just to clarify, neither the wife or husband had Japanese ancestry. She said that when their baby was born, the husband asked her why the baby was Japanese. In short, he suspected that she had fooled around with a nikkei. But, what puzzles me is that he referred to the baby as Japanese, when the baby is: #1) Brazilian, and #2) has a mother of non-Japanese descent.

What I don't understand is why some Brazilians, and I'm talking about a sizable percentage here, persist on referring to nikkei Brazilians as Japanese? The vast majority of nikkei Brazilians don't even speak Japanese. Also, many even go as far to refer to the admixed nikkei Brazilians as "Japanese" as well. Every time I hear a Brazilian refer to admixed nikkei as "uma mistura de brasileiros com japoneses", I cringe, because it makes absolutely no sense. I've read stories by many nikkei Brazilians, both unmixed and admixed, who get labeled as Japanese by many Brazilians. How come they're Japanese, yet Xuxa and Gisele are Brazilian? Why isn't Xuxa Austrian? Why isn't Gisele German? Why isn't Gugu Liberato Portuguese? Why isn't José Serra Italian? Why are they exceptions and yet not the Brazilians of Japanese and/or Asian descent? I find this lack of respect fundamentally racist.

I read that Peru is much more inclusive when it comes to their nikkei community. The Peruvian mentality is "todos somos peruanos". Is this sense of inclusion derived from the fact Peru has a larger percentage of people of Asian descent?

Most Americans will refer to any person born and raised in the States as American, regardless of their ancestry. Brazil promotes itself as a multiethnic society, but how come some of them make an exception when it comes to Asian Brazilians? I think it's obnoxiously hypocritical. As far as unity goes, Peru and the U.S. seem to be the most inclusive societies when it comes to their citizens.

I don't think that when Brazilians say these kind of things they have, in their minds, the idea that Brazilian-Japanese are not truly Brazilian. Like Incanal said, Brazilians call all Asians they meet (even Korean Brazilians and Chinese Brazilians) "Japones" because that was the most common Asian in the country the past.

Brazilians usually call others by nicknames. Brazilians call Brazilians with recent Portuguese ancestry "Português" or "tuga" and most blonde men eventually end up with the nickname "Alemão" (German), even if they are not German. For example, a reality show contestant and B-grade celebrity Diego "Alemão" is called that way all the time in the media (and on Big Brother, the show he was on) because he's blonde. But he doesn't even descend from Germans (his full name is Diego Bissoloti Guasques, I think his blondism comes from the Italian side of the family). Brazilians also call all Middle Easterners and Brazilians that descend from non-Jewish Middle Easterners "Turks" (even though most of them are descended from Levantines from Lebanon and Syria). People from São Paulo call all the Northeasterner immigrants "Bahiano" and people from Rio de Janeiro call all of them "ParaÃ*bas", because those are the states from which most immigrants came to their respective city (even though not all of them came from those states, still they are lumped together).

It's interesting to read these testimonies written by some Japanese that visited Brazil in 1996. Somethings they got wrong, but somethings they got right about Brazilian society:

http://www.ri2660.gr.jp/stage/GSE/gs...eb/Hasegaw.htm

The Japanese-Brazilians have kept the Japanese habit of calling those who are not Japanese gaijin (foreigners, or outsiders), and even though they are actually the gaijin in Brazil, they call non-Japanese Brazilians gaijin.. When I heard this, it seemed a bit humorous to me. Also, it was interesting that Japanese-Brazilians do not call Korean- or Chinese-Brazilians gaijin..

Japanese-Brazilians call anyone who is not of Japanese, Korean or Chinese origin gaijin, and they are not concerned in the least what country the Brazilians are from. However, conversely, Brazilians generally call all Japanese-Brazilians, regardless of whether they are first-, second- or third-generation, by the name Japones. This term in no way implies that the Brazilians are looking down on the Japanese-Brazilians. Rather, it appears that it is a term familiarity. A Nanbei Bank employee said to me, "Japanese-Brazilians are the most respected group of people in Brazil. They are deemed absolutely trustworthy in regard to borrowing and repaying money." The Nanbei Bank was founded by a Japanese, and it is probably the reason that this bank is one of the major banks in Brazil today.

(...)

Also, in Brazil, blond-haired Caucasians are called "Alemao" (which means "German") and blacks are called Bahiano. But not all blond-haired Caucasians are German. Anglo-Saxons, Jews, and Russians are also blond, but Brazilians don't care about this at all. And it appears that Israeli- and Russian-Brazilians don't mind being called "Alemao". The reason blacks are referred to as "Bahiano" is that when African slaves were first brought into Brazil to work in the colonial days, the majority were concentrated in Bahia State. Those born in Bahia were called Bahiano, but today, despite the fact that blacks live all over Brazil, all blacks are collectively referred to as Bahiano.

This was also obvious from the way in which a Japanese-Brazilian druggist in Guarulhos would always say "Bahiano, Bahiano" repeatedly every time he saw a black person. Such ways of referring to the different races have no root in discrimination in Brazil. Everyone realizes and understands that they are all Brazilians and compatriots, and they are merely calling people by these names to distinguish between one another based upon physical appearance. Notice that he thought all Blacks are called Bahiano in Brazil because he stayed only in some cities in São Paulo. Anyway, I think the parts that I bolded are correct.

To sum up, Brazilians have a knack for simplifying things (like where someone comes from) and giving people nicknames, especially based on appearance or place they come from (or their ancestors come from). The reason Brazilians call all East Asian looking people Japones (even Asian Brazilians who are not even descended from Japanese) is because Japanese were the biggest Asian community in Brazil for a long time. Normally when Brazilians call someone by an ethnic name (Japonês, Alemão, Portugues, Portuga, Polaco, Turco, etc) they're not actually thinking these people are not Brazilian, they're just referring to what makes them distinct. This happens more with phenotypes that are rarer or more distinct from the Brazilian average, as is the case of Japanese Brazilians.

The one case in which Brazilians are saying they do not think someone is Brazilians is when they call someone "gringo". Most foreigners are called gringo, especially Europeans, North Americans and other Latin Americans.

Edit: Also, I don't feel offended (most of the time) when people call me "Japonês" or "Japa". A lot depends on the context, but it's very rare for people to use those words to offend. This seems to be different from the US, where I heard "jap" was seen as negative way to call Japanese.

[Prealiitellg]

Marllon for someone who has never truly lived in Brazil (you left when you were 3 years old) you seem to be quite a scholar on us, don't you? The fact that you have Brazilian ancestry does not make you an expert on it, not at all.

Sometimes I get this feeling that many americans think that knowledge and culture are transmited genetically. Sort of like that Johnny Weissmuller Tarzan character who starts speaking english even when he was surrounded by chimps his whole life just cause his parents were anglo lol.

Edit: Also, I don't feel offended (most of the time) when people call me "Japonês" or "Japa". A lot depends on the context, but it's very rare for people to use those words to offend. This seems to be different from the US, where I heard "jap" was seen as negative way to call Japanese.

I have observed that in the US, any kind of word that denotes or hints race has to be racist no matter what.

[BruceCroucshs]

Sometimes I get this feeling that many americans think that knowledge and culture are transmited genetically. Sort of like that Johnny Weissmuller Tarzan character who starts speaking english even when he was surrounded by chimps his whole life just cause his parents were anglo lol.





I have observed that in the US, any kind of word that denotes or hints race has to be racist no matter what.

Yeah, I have seen this. Americans can't simply understand the fact that giving nicks to people is basically an integral part of our cultures. Life would be damn boring if things were to be formal ALL the time.