[BigBobdd]

Why did race become such a big issue in the United States compared to the other former colonies? I was watching a video where economist, social theorist and political philosopher Thomas Sowell stated that race became such an issue in the United States due to the egalitarian ideas that the United States was founded upon. In the Declaration of Independence it says that all men are created equal. Now I don't believe in that claim for a second, but Sowell says "if that's true then the only way you can justify slavery is to say that some men are less than men". He makes the point further by highlighting the fact that Brazil imported more slaves than the United States but does not have anywhere near the same history or views regarding race.

Egalitarianism in practice always seems to have these undesirable outcomes. I suspect that these negative outcomes stem from the fact that egalitarianism is based on a profound misconception of human nature and a feeling of discontent toward nature itself.

I find Sowell's argument to be an interesting and convincing. What's your take on it?

[Zhgrlpil]

Race is as big of an issue in Latin America as it is in the United States. It's probably even a bigger issue. They had slavery too, and people over there discriminate against people because of the way they look and the color of their skin. actually, the discrimination over there is way worse than anything that goes on in America.

[ebookinfo]

Race is as big of an issue in Latin America as it is in the United States. It's probably even a bigger issue. They had slavery too, and people over there discriminate against people because of the way they look and the color of their skin. actually, the discrimination over there is way worse than anything that goes on in America.

What are your sources on this? Have you ever lived in Latin America? I have, and I can tell you that race is a not as big of an issue in Latin America as it is in the US.

[wrenjmerg]

What are your sources on this? Have you ever lived in Latin America? I have, and I can tell you that race is a not as big of an issue in Latin America as it is in the US.

Where are your sources that race is more of an issue in America than it is in Latin America? Black and West Indian people do get treated a lot worse in Latin America. Latin American sports fans can also be very racist, I know what gets said to black athletes in countries like Brazil. that would rarely ever happen at an American sports event.

[c-cialis]

Race is as big of an issue in Latin America as it is in the United States. It's probably even a bigger issue.

I would say that colorism is bigger in Latin America and racial obsession is more of an American thing.

[ZwHRoTTn]

Race is as big of an issue in Latin America as it is in the United States. It's probably even a bigger issue. They had slavery too, and people over there discriminate against people because of the way they look and the color of their skin. actually, the discrimination over there is way worse than anything that goes on in America.

Just so I'm clear, I'm not trying to demonize the United States. As I stated, the other European colonies in the western hemisphere had slavery as well. However, slavery is not synonymous with racism. Slavery existed for quite a long time without the need for racial theories to justify it. According to people who have lived in many Latin American countries, including relatives of mine, most Latin American countries don't have the same view of race that developed in the United States. It's not that people were color blind, but they were less concerned with race than they were with culture, language and patriotism. Many Puerto Ricans even claim that race consciousness increased after the United States took over due to the influence of U.S. culture.

Also, discrimination isn't synonymous with racism in my view. The fact that people prefer to associated with people who look, think and behave the way they do isn't inherently hateful, contemptuous or wrong.

[LesLattis]

Race becomes a preferred category than nationality when grouping diverse peoples together into one area. In large, dense populations it becomes easier to define someone on an individual basis by noting phenotypical or cultural characteristics.

Over the centuries, problem-ridden countries vomited their refugees on America's shores, creating a "salad bowl" rather than a "melting pot".

America was isolated from the Old World for a long period of time, housing mostly Northern Europeans until the late 1800s-1900s, around the same time at which wars plagued Europe and flushed out migrants. Nativists, aware that their country was inevitably affected by these problems, could place the blame on migrants. They believed that preserving their racial composition was key.

[TughEmotteTug]

mexicans are the new blacks in america

[poekfpojoibien]

Black and West Indian people do get treated a lot worse in Latin America.

LOL there are not West Indians in Latin America.

[Repwailia]

Why did race become such a big issue in the United States compared to the other former colonies? I was watching a video where economist, social theorist and political philosopher Thomas Sowell stated that race became such an issue in the United States due to the egalitarian ideas that the United States was founded upon. In the Declaration of Independence it says that all men are created equal. Now I don't believe in that claim for a second, but Sowell says "if that's true then the only way you can justify slavery is to say that some men are less than men". He makes the point further by highlighting the fact that Brazil imported more slaves than the United States but does not have anywhere near the same history or views regarding race.

Egalitarianism in practice always seems to have these undesirable outcomes. I suspect that these negative outcomes stem from the fact that egalitarianism is based on a profound misconception of human nature and a feeling of discontent toward nature itself.

I find Sowell's argument to be an interesting and convincing. What's your take on it?

Let's look at the facts. You have the whitest people on the earth and the blackest people on earth, sharing the same space after tens of thousands of years of being separate. Naturally, this is going to be some kind of issue. Germanics and Nubians: two opposite ends of the spectrum in so many ways. I think we can all be glad that it has not yet played a central role in our society, resulting in the eradication of one by the other?

[jesyflowers]

Race is as big of an issue in Latin America as it is in the United States. It's probably even a bigger issue. They had slavery too, and people over there discriminate against people because of the way they look and the color of their skin. actually, the discrimination over there is way worse than anything that goes on in America.

The difference between the two colonial experiences lies in the fact that in the Latin American scenario, the concept of race is more mobile. For example, the fact that Juana Mendez was a slave didn't mean that her sons with the local magnate would "inherit" her slave condition, cuz' the Spanish laws specifically commanded the magnate in question to free his mulatto offspring once he/she was baptized at the local Church. Furthermore, if the magnate in question failed to produce children in his "legitimate" (as in, white) marriage, he could make his mulatto offspring inherit ALL his wealth without any problems. Whereas in the Anglo scenario, the liberty (or continued enslaved status) of the mulatto child depended on the pangs of conscience of the master in question. Furthermore, there were a lot of barriers against people of color in the property department, while in the Spanish/Portuguese/French colonies, seeing extremely wealthy colored people wasn't such a strange ocurrence.

Here's an historical example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julien_Raimond

[TOOGUEITEME]

LOL there are not West Indians in Latin America.

I meant heavily American Indian-influenced people when I said that.

[Queueftof]

^^ Well, at least we never send ours to reservations.

[Bromikka]

^^ Well, at least we never send ours to reservations.

Lol you gotta be kidding me...Reservations are far better then Complete Annihilation of a people in which the Spanish committed...

I have yet to see one Arawak or Taino
At least we can go see Cherokees today

---------- Post added 2012-03-20 at 12:40 ----------

To answer the question tho I think racism in the US stemmed from slavery just like racism did for other countries. In order to justify slavery you have to convince the world that the people being enslaved are less than human. The first slaves in the America's were Native people and the same excuse was given. They even took them to Europe to have debates to see if they were human or not.

[RlUbQU3R]

^^ Well, at least we never send ours to reservations.

Yes, they're living in reservations getting millions of dollars and other great, special benefits from our government so they can run casinos and whatnot.

We don't "send" them to reservations. we even let them have their own separate nations within our nation.

[FinanseMikky]

Where are your sources that race is more of an issue in America than it is in Latin America? Black and West Indian people do get treated a lot worse in Latin America. Latin American sports fans can also be very racist, I know what gets said to black athletes in countries like Brazil. that would rarely ever happen at an American sports event.

I like how you evade my request for sources by simply asking me what I just asked you. Native American individuals in Mexico who have no tribal ties are very well intergrated into society. Do we see the same in the US? Nope. Like Incal said, they are sent to live in shitty reservations. And then when we discover that there are Uranium deposits under their reservations, we want to relocate them once again. I speak from experience living in both areas. Do you? Racism exists everywhere, but the level at which it exists in the US is generally not commonplace in Latin America.

---------- Post added 2012-03-20 at 10:04 ----------

Lol you gotta be kidding me...Reservations are far better then Complete Annihilation of a people in which the Spanish committed...

I have yet to see one Arawak or Taino
At least we can go see Cherokees today

---------- Post added 2012-03-20 at 12:40 ----------

To answer the question tho I think racism in the US stemmed from slavery just like racism did for other countries. In order to justify slavery you have to convince the world that the people being enslaved are less than human. The first slaves in the America's were Native people and the same excuse was given. They even took them to Europe to have debates to see if they were human or not.

LOL you gotta be kidding me... This was due to disease and overworking the Amerindian slaves to death. Which also happened very commonly in SSA slaves that were worked to death as well in the south. However, the Spanish never purposely gave the natives small-pox infected blankets as was done in the US.

---------- Post added 2012-03-20 at 10:06 ----------

Yes, they're living in reservations getting millions of dollars and other great, special benefits from our government so they can run casinos and whatnot.

We don't "send" them to reservations. we even let them have their own separate nations within our nation.

Have you ever been to a reservation? The land is a piece of shit. That is the reason they have casinos, they can't grow shit in those deserts. They stay there because they are trying to preserve their culture. They have really no other option unless they decide to integrate into American Society.

[outsitWrord]

I like how you evade my request for sources by simply asking me what I just asked you. Native American individuals in Mexico who have no tribal ties are very well intergrated into society. Do we see the same in the US? Nope. Like Incal said, they are sent to live in shitty reservations. And then when we discover that there are Uranium deposits under their reservations, we want to relocate them once again. I speak from experience living in both areas. Do you? Racism exists everywhere, but the level at which it exists in the US is generally not commonplace in Latin America.

There are many Native Americans who have integrated into society. And some leave reservations, go to school, fight in wars etc. Just like Mexico...In my opinion the only difference between US and Latino racism is the US is at least somewhat aware of it, Latin America either ignores or tries to hide it. But Again jus my observation

[slimfifa]

In America racism is a sin and you can and will be punished for it. If you make a racial slur you'll likely be public enemy #1 unless it's against a white person or a member of a religious group like Catholics or Muslims then it somehow becomes okay to be hateful.

If you're the victim of racism in Latin America, good luck trying to have anything done about it. Good luck getting bystanders to help you if you're being discriminated against because of your race.

[Afigenatjola]

[QUOTE=Pro;782307]I like how you evade my request for sources by simply asking me what I just asked you. Native American individuals in Mexico who have no tribal ties are very well intergrated into society. Do we see the same in the US? Nope. Like Incal said, they are sent to live in shitty reservations. And then when we discover that there are Uranium deposits under their reservations, we want to relocate them once again. I speak from experience living in both areas. Do you? Racism exists everywhere, but the level at which it exists in the US is generally not commonplace in Latin America.

---------- Post added 2012-03-20 at 10:04 ----------



LOL you gotta be kidding me... This was due to disease and overworking the Amerindian slaves to death. Which also happened very commonly in SSA slaves that were worked to death as well in the south. However, the Spanish never purposely gave the natives small-pox infected blankets as was done in the US.

---------- Post added 2012-03-20 at 10:06 ----------




I think you are misinformed a little. the Spanish did horrible things to the Taino and Arawak speaking people of the Caribbean. overworking, cruelty, murder, are the same thing in my book. Just look at the evidence... where are the Taino that lived in Jamaica today or Antigua or Cuba, Haiti, Dominican republic? Not defending treament of Indians but at least America preserved some Native people. The Spanish main goal was finding Gold to please Spain and the Crown. Americans were simply trying to form a new nation and identity so the preservation of the Indian was important. And Yes the Spanish purposely committed genocide. I cant imagine any opposition to that statment

[Dodoerabe]

Lol you gotta be kidding me...Reservations are far better then Complete Annihilation of a people in which the Spanish committed...

I have yet to see one Arawak or Taino
At least we can go see Cherokees today [COLOR="Silver"]

Son, do us a favor, travel to Mexico or South America, you will see natives all over the place.