[Berta]

You are right Riffains don't even know that jebala/ghomara are berbers(ethnically) they think they're as arabs as those of Arabia and they don't know there are berbers in Algeria/Tunisia and Libya and Riffains would rarelly use "amazigh" to group themselves with other berbers,many Riffains think that "Riffain" is a race and that they and soussis are of different races

---------- Post added 2011-09-13 at 16:38 ----------

also many Algerian "arabs" I've met here in Spain(illegal immigrants) didn't know what "Kabylies" are

Yes, indeed many moroccans don't even know of the existence of other berbers in other North-African countries. I must say though, most of my relatives are pretty familiar with kabyles. Kabyles are more well-known b/c of their culture, and being more in the media the past few years(think of their protests and music).

[Endatrybeeddy]

Yes, indeed many moroccans don't even know of the existence of other berbers in other North-African countries. I must say though, most of my relatives are pretty familiar with kabyles. Kabyles are more well-known b/c of their culture, and being more in the media the past few years(think of their protests and music).

but your family in Europe or the Rif?

[melissa]

but your family in Europe or the Rif?

Hehe, my family in Morocco is also familiar with Kabyles. In fact more than my relatives living in Europe(). Some of my relatives there live in Nador, which has a small Kabyle/Algerian community.

[Hofonom]

i see. So language and culture really would separate them huh?

---------- Post added 2011-09-12 at 20:51 ----------

Was that because of race or trade or something like that?

i know that the Tuareg experienced many problems because of desertification and foreign alliances which are trying to force them into 'modernization'

In case you still don't quite get what he's saying, it's just that they are seperated into distinct groups further seperated by distance is all.

Compare with Germany and France, or East verses West Coast rappers.

Not to say anything with certainty about race, completely negating race from it, because it actually is that I have heard of some groups (Northerners) having issues racially, with non-Berbers from Sub-Saharan Africa as well as with Tuareg (also Berber speakers).

However, if a Northern Berber (or Amazigh -- Ilias what do you prefer calling yourself btw? And personally, outside of a learning context?) simply says they are tightnit derivative groups (rather than integral with other groups) that just as well explains it with out a need to necessarily insert race into his explaination (by asking if he meant racially).

My own question to Berbers:

I am kind of curious in terms of Northerners, though, that is: for groups like say the Kabyles and Riffians, with whom it seems not uncommon to have blondes, is there that much phenotype variation? What is the range in all its extremities and if there is variation is one end taken to be more indicative of Riffianness than the other?

[ForumMasta]

Hehe, my family in Morocco is also familiar with Kabyles. In fact more than my relatives living in Europe(). Some of my relative there live in Nador, which has a small Kabyle/Algerian community.

must be that

[Zjohkrbi]

Saida and Tlemcen

Okay the most hater ones, sh'ab Tahya Boutflika

[DuePew]

I am kind of curious in terms of Northerners, though, that is: for groups like say the Kabyles and Riffians, with whom it seems not uncommon to have blondes, is there that much phenotype variation? What is the range in all its extremities and if there is variation is one end taken to be more indicative of Riffianness than the other?

I am not the best to answer this cause I have never been there but seems there is a big variation in phenotypes. For example gingers were not uncommon in the village where my Kabyle ancetors hail from.

[Anamehuskeene]

Compare with Germany and France, or East verses West Coast rappers.

[indianstory]

In case you still don't quite get what he's saying, it's just that they are seperated into distinct groups further seperated by distance is all.

Compare with Germany and France, or East verses West Coast rappers.

Not to say anything with certainty about race, completely negating race from it, because it actually is that I have heard of some groups (Northerners) having issues racially, with non-Berbers from Sub-Saharan Africa as well as with Tuareg (also Berber speakers).

However, if a Northern Berber (or Amazigh -- Ilias what do you prefer calling yourself btw? And personally, outside of a learning context?) simply says they are tightnit derivative groups (rather than integral with other groups) that just as well explains it with out a need to necessarily insert race into his explaination (by asking if he meant racially).

My own question to Berbers:

I am kind of curious in terms of Northerners, though, that is: for groups like say the Kabyles and Riffians, with whom it seems not uncommon to have blondes, is there that much phenotype variation? What is the range in all its extremities and if there is variation is one end taken to be more indicative of Riffianness than the other?

Common riffain phenotypes









this last guy is from Tetouan he looks really Riffain so i guess he must be a disaporan(I doubt he's jebli)

[apannamma]

Common riffain phenotypes









this last guy is from Tetouan he looks really Riffain so i guess he must be a disaporan(I doubt he's jebli)

i can see why they would consider themselves Arab. They could easily go for Syrian or Egyptian. Berbers may be separated by distance but it seems they would be separated by phenotypes as well. Is there a variation in their culture and if so, can distant Berbers tell each other apart by culture and phenotypes?

[chechokancho]

i can see why they would consider themselves Arab. They could easily go for Syrian or Egyptian. Berbers may be separated by distance but it seems they would be separated by phenotypes as well. Is there a variation in their culture and if so, can distant Berbers tell each other apart by culture and phenotypes?

by phenotype obviously(although some Central/southern Moroccans look "riffain")
and by culture more so because berbers are very different a Riffain is culturally very different from a chleuh and both very different from Saharan " berbers" I think Islamic celebrations(besides language) is what makes berber to be "similar" some way

[CVEGK7mV]

by phenotype obviously(although some Central/southern Moroccans look "riffain")
and by culture more so because berbers are very different a Riffain is culturally very different from a chleuh and both very different from Saharan " berbers" I think Islamic celebrations(besides language) is what makes berber to be "similar" some way

I see. I notice that you do not mention Moors. Are Moors separate from the Berbers or are they Saharans?

Funny you should say Islamic celebrations. I know that the Berbers and their familial branches have many variations in Islam which often times is cultural. I would think that Islam would separate them in some regards.

[Anydayhybeall]

How different are Riffains and Kabyles?

[Fegemiembendy]

How different are Riffains and Kabyles?

not much really(at least phenotypically I've been told by kabyles here that I look a tizi ouzou dweller)

---------- Post added 2011-09-13 at 18:06 ----------

I see. I notice that you do not mention Moors. Are Moors separate from the Berbers or are they Saharans?

Funny you should say Islamic celebrations. I know that the Berbers and their familial branches have many variations in Islam which often times is cultural. I would think that Islam would separate them in some regards.

I don't know who those "moors" are but from what I know "moros" are Maghrebis(although sometimes it includes all muslims) at least here in Spain

[stutnerman]

not much really(at least phenotypically I've been told by kabyles here that I look a tizi ouzou dweller)

---------- Post added 2011-09-13 at 18:06 ----------



I don't know who those "moors" are but from what I know "moros" are Maghrebis(although sometimes it includes all muslims) at least here in Spain

Yea I know about Moros referring to Maghrebis, but I mean Maurs/Moors such as those in West Sahara and Mauritania?

btw you're in Spain? There are Muslims in Spain called Moros???

[eropiereetuekm]

Yea I know about Moros referring to Maghrebis, but I mean Maurs/Moors such as those in West Sahara and Mauritania?

btw you're in Spain? There are Muslims in Spain called Moros???

yeah muslims are coloquially refered as moros but mostly those from the Maghreb
and Riffain(and all Maghrebis as well) know very little about Mauritania and its people I think Mauritania is seen as a black/mulattoe mulsim African country such as Senegal or even Sudan,they're not seen as berber not even Sahrawis are known to be berber
in Morocco amzighs would be just Riffains,Atlasians and Soussis and Saharns are seen just as sarahans

[shieclulaweew]

yeah muslims are coloquially refered as moros but mostly those from the Maghreb
and Riffain(and all Maghrebis as well) know very little about Mauritania and its people I think Mauritania is seen as a black/mulattoe mulsim African country such as Senegal or even Sudan,they're not seen as berber not even Sahrawis are known to be berber
in Morocco amzighs would be just Riffains,Atlasians and Soussis and Saharns are seen just as sarahans

I see, but why is that? Is it mainly because of their location? Especially for Saharawis. I always believed them to be the closest link to the Moroccan Berbers ( rather than others)

[wbeachcomber]

I see, but why is that? Is it mainly because of their location? Especially for Saharawis. I always believed them to be the closest link to the Moroccan Berbers ( rather than others)

because of their location and their small number and their negroid phenotypes as well(except mozabites)
and I think a big chunk of sahrawis consider themselves "arabs" to be honest I always though sahrawis were arabs(mozabite types) and afro-arabs(Touareg types) I didn't even know some spoke "tamazight"

[blankostaroe]

because of their location and their small number and their negroid phenotypes as well(except mozabites)
and I think a big chunk of sahrawis consider themselves "arabs" to be honest I always though sahrawis were arabs(mozabite types) and afro-arabs(Touareg types) I didn't even know some spoke "tamazight"

oh I see that's true ( I believe the number of Sahrawis familiar with the language is few), but even thought there are these differences, all come from a common nomadic ancestors correct?

[simmons latex mattress]

i can see why they would consider themselves Arab. They could easily go for Syrian or Egyptian. Berbers may be separated by distance but it seems they would be separated by phenotypes as well. Is there a variation in their culture and if so, can distant Berbers tell each other apart by culture and phenotypes?

They're deeply Berberid if you scrutinize more, Syrians are much divergent to Berbers in terms of phenotype they look West Asians and nothing else, Lower Egyptians often overlap Moroccans and Algerians who come from an area located under 34° N.

In overall Amazighs (aside from Southern Tuaregs which are West Africans) folks aren't that much divided at least not that more than Arab-speaking North Africans (what has a pseudo-Yemenite Mauritanian from Trarza to do with a Jebli ?).


To get back on topic, Northern Tuaregs upheld the genuine Imuhagh (true name of Tuaregs) culture and yet those confederations (literally little nations) came ultimately from Tafilelt in Southern Morocco or Syrte's region but assimilated large chunks of preexisting populations there, Southern Tuaregs (Agadez and so on southwards) are basically Berberized Fulas or Songhay.