[Battwenue]

On the whole do homogenous countries have a lower rate of (violent) crime than multi-ethnic countries?

It strikes me that the predominantly homogenous countries of Europe like Iceland, Slovenia, Czech Republic, Finland, Greece, etc have low rates of crime, while the more multi-ethnic countries like Russia, France, UK, Germany have higher crime.

[somasideff]

On the whole do homogenous countries have a lower rate of (violent) crime than multi-ethnic countries?

yes)

[apannamma]

It depends. Are these crimes commited only by the minorities?

[dittygari]

It depends. Are these crimes commited only by the minorities?

Good point. I doubt Swaziland, for all its homogeneity, is safer than France. The correlation is between ethnicity/race/culture and crime rather than between heterogeneity and crime.

[Nafheense]

Good point. I doubt Swaziland, for all its homogeneity, is safer than France. The correlation is between ethnicity/race/culture and crime rather than between heterogeneity and crime.

Exactly, and take for example Somalia - a country that s highly homogenous. Still, criminality is prevalent in the country. However, it could be a quite correct analog between homogeneity and insecurity. Robert Putnam, a harvard professor, argues that heterogeneity works in negative way, when it comes to social capital. He assess that heterogeneity works against social capital, because people from different groups will not trust each other, at the same extent as their own group. In this regard, we could take the jews and gypsies as example. Both these groups have a high sense of group harmony - albeit, they can still steal from other goiyim groups (Gypsies are used in the example).

Another example could be that the intelligence system works better in a homogenous society, rather than the opposite. Iraq witnessed the worst killings in mixed neighbourhoods. Moreover, further South, in predominantly Shia areas, there was no bombings or killings with religious or ethnic undertones. The same accounts for the Kurdish areas, for example, its easier for Kurds to approach other Kurds, when they gather information, rather than a arab would try to collect intelligence information in Kurdistan. The first barrier, would be language, and second they dont understand the customs in the same way.

Conclusion;

Someone could argue that homogenous societies promotes a securer social environment, however, the same could be argued against homogeneity, if we consider the case of Somalia. This leads us to the conclusion, that both theories can be used to celebrate a certain political agenda. Also, another important thing is that security, criminality are multidimensional problems, therefore, one cannot take a single and simplistic path to understand this issue.

[Link to Putnams theory]:

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...ZpRLZezhs7-gvA

[hansen384cbh]

Robert Putnam - someone is referencing political science! I feel some affinity towards this as a sociologist, but I'm far too drunk to post a coherent reply right now. All I'm going to say now is that he also had an interesting study on Italy and its regions, and I agree with his conclusions. It's the people that make the politics, and not the other way around.

http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journ...br_putnam.html

[IronpumpedLady]

It has more to do with poverty and CULTURE.

Muslim countries are usually poor, but they have low rated of criminality, because they have severe penalties for criminals, like to pull the arm.

[Sipewrio]

Good point. I doubt Swaziland, for all its homogeneity, is safer than France. The correlation is between ethnicity/race/culture and crime rather than between heterogeneity and crime.

But that's because Swaziland is filled with black people.

Iceland is homogeneous and safe.

[Les Allen]

It has more to do with poverty and CULTURE.

Muslim countries are usually poor, but they have low rated of criminality, because they have severe penalties for criminals, like to pull the arm.

Indeed,if universal death penalty for violent crimes and severe punishments for non-productive lives would be set the world would probably be a better place,heil myself.

[unishisse]

But that's because Swaziland is filled with black people.

Iceland is homogeneous and safe.

Iceland has 300,000 inhabitants and one of the best life qualities in the world.

Switzerland is bigger, but it is one of the best countries to live in the world. I dont think it is much less safe than Iceland.

And if the immigrants are usually poor people, it's not a surprise that they commite crimes.

European immigrants, including the Italians, used to be on the top list of criminals in Brazil in the early 20th century. Poverty make people criminal. Just do a research about criminals in São Paulo city in the early 20th century and Italians were on top, while Portuguese were on top in Rio.

---------- Post added 2010-10-24 at 02:07 ----------

Indeed,if universal death penalty for violent crimes and severe punishments for non-productive lives would be set the world would probably be a better place,heil myself.

Half of the world would be killed

[duceswild]

But that's because Swaziland is filled with black people.

Iceland is homogeneous and safe.

All black nations are not crime ridden, that is a very ignorant statement.

http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/faculty/rwinslow/africa.html


Senegal for example is quite safe:

According to the INTERPOL data, for murder, the rate in 2000 was 0.33 per 100,000 population for Senegal, 1.10 for Japan, and 5.51 for USA. For rape, the rate in 2000 was 1.71 for Senegal, compared with 1.78 for Japan and 32.05 for USA. (Data for Senegal are for "sex offences (including rape)", to replace missing data for rape) For robbery, the rate in 2000 was 2.07 for Senegal, 4.08 for Japan, and 144.92 for USA. For aggravated assault, the rate in 2000 was 6.62 for Senegal, 23.78 for Japan, and 323.62 for USA. For burglary, the rate in 2000 was 2.47 for Senegal, 233.60 for Japan, and 728.42 for USA. The rate of larceny for 2000 was 46.98 for Senegal, 1401.26 for Japan, and 2475.27 for USA. The rate for motor vehicle theft in 2000 was 4.11 for Senegal, compared with 44.28 for Japan and 414.17 for USA. The rate for all index offenses combined was 64.29 for Senegal, compared with 1709.88 for Japan and 4123.97 for USA.
Have you ever been to SubSahara Africa?

I have and I'm going back in December.

In Ethiopia women routinely walk the street at night with no fear...unlike in Stockholm or Glasgow.

[KeestRast]

It was intentionally ignorant, and intended for humour only.

I have never been to any part of Africa, and have no burning desire to change that.

[Gofthooxdix]

It's not a matter of homogenous, but when a country lets itself be invaded by illegal immigrants and foreigners, there is bound to be more crime.

[Beerinkol]

It was intentionally ignorant, and intended for humour only.

I have never been to any part of Africa, and have no burning desire to change that.

Why such a hate feeling against Africa?

Sicily was not the safest place in the world either (look at Mafia)

[Quigoxito]

Why such a hate feeling against Africa?

Sicily was not the safest place in the world either (look at Mafia)

Sicily is trans-continental. There are actually islands within Sicily that are geographically part of Africa.

[reachmanxx]

Exactly, and take for example Somalia - a country that s highly homogenous. Still, criminality is prevalent in the country. However, it could be a quite correct analog between homogeneity and insecurity. Robert Putnam, a harvard professor, argues that heterogeneity works in negative way, when it comes to social capital. He assess that heterogeneity works against social capital, because people from different groups will not trust each other, at the same extent as their own group. In this regard, we could take the jews and gypsies as example. Both these groups have a high sense of group harmony - albeit, they can still steal from other goiyim groups (Gypsies are used in the example).

Another example could be that the intelligence system works better in a homogenous society, rather than the opposite. Iraq witnessed the worst killings in mixed neighbourhoods. Moreover, further South, in predominantly Shia areas, there was no bombings or killings with religious or ethnic undertones. The same accounts for the Kurdish areas, for example, its easier for Kurds to approach other Kurds, when they gather information, rather than a arab would try to collect intelligence information in Kurdistan. The first barrier, would be language, and second they dont understand the customs in the same way.

Conclusion;

Someone could argue that homogenous societies promotes a securer social environment, however, the same could be argued against homogeneity, if we consider the case of Somalia. This leads us to the conclusion, that both theories can be used to celebrate a certain political agenda. Also, another important thing is that security, criminality are multidimensional problems, therefore, one cannot take a single and simplistic path to understand this issue.

[Link to Putnams theory]:

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...ZpRLZezhs7-gvA

Somalia is not really homogeneous, there are dozens of clans that despise each other and there are also extremist/wahabi Muslims against moderate Muslims fighting each other.

[diemeareendup]

All black nations are not crime ridden, that is a very ignorant statement.

http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/faculty/rwinslow/africa.html


Senegal for example is quite safe:




Have you ever been to SubSahara Africa?

I have and I'm going back in December.

In Ethiopia women routinely walk the street at night with no fear...unlike in Stockholm or Glasgow.

Off Topic - It seems that Ghana is doing well as well, counted both economically and socially:

"CEIBS’s move into Ghana comes at an opportune time. The school chose the west African state, it says, because of its relative stability and decent educational tradition, as well as its proximity to the larger, but far less benign, Nigerian market. But it is little coincidence that Ghana also stands poised to join its neighbours as an oil and gas producer. The discovery of the offshore Jubilee oilfield in 2007 was followed, in July this year, by further discoveries at the Owo field, described as “transformational” by Tullow Oil, a British company working in partnership with Ghana’s government-owned National Petroleum Company".
http://www.economist.com/whichmba/ceibs-in-ghana

---------- Post added 2010-10-24 at 03:56 ----------

Somalia is not really homogeneous, there are dozens of clans that despise each other and there are also extremist/wahabi Muslims against moderate Muslims fighting each other.

Ethnically speaking.

[iqxdvjgmat]

Ethnically speaking.

They have a clan system which makes things different and not comparable with countries who don't have this.

[sPncEjF7]

They have a clan system which makes things different and not comparable with countries who don't have this.

You misunderstood, I dont talk about the social fragmentation of the country. I'm totally avare of how a tribal based society works, and how it divides the country. But I was rather talking in a ethnic context.

---------- Post added 2010-10-24 at 04:12 ----------

Robert Putnam - someone is referencing political science! I feel some affinity towards this as a sociologist, but I'm far too drunk to post a coherent reply right now. All I'm going to say now is that he also had an interesting study on Italy and its regions, and I agree with his conclusions. It's the people that make the politics, and not the other way around.

http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journ...br_putnam.html

I have read that book. It contains research on the level of corruption in Italy, divided between north and south. The interesting part of the book is that the leftist areas of Italy, were the communist party has their largest concentration of supporters, was the least corrupt province in Italy.

[Paybeskf]

You misunderstood, I dont talk about the social fragmentation in the country. I'm totally avare of how a tribal based society works, and how it divides the country. But I was rather talking in a ethnic context.

Well, that's the problem. Let's take Japan for example, a fairly homogeneous country. A Japanese just identifies as Japanese and nothing else really but for Somalis it is different. They identify with their clan first and only as 'Somali' when they are among foreigners. So that's why it's wrong to take them as an example of a homogeneous country gone bad.