[DeilMikina]

A friend of mine, who is Morrocan, he hates being called as Middle Eastern and he calls himself as African while another friend of mine, who is Egyptian, he hates being called as African and he always call himself as Egyptian or Middle Eastern.

So the question is, if you are from North Africa, how do you view yourself, do you call yourself more as Middle Eastern or African or North African ?

For example: I am Turkish, I call my country as Middle Eastern, West Asian but also Near Eastern, what about you ?

---------- Post added 2011-10-30 at 20:12 ----------

I mean following countries (ignore Mauritania please):

[attlawqa]

moroccans are one quarter negroids

[rxnixoncom]

Tuareg/North African (father) > Songhai/West African (mother) > African > black

I don't consider myself Middle Eastern.

[HaseBeceDeemy]

Moroccans see themselves as berbers and some as arabs and those who are light skinned and have predominally caucasoid features consider themselves to be "white" but not as Europeans and then there are those who consider themselves blacks but only those who look predominally black the majority of Moroccans who look mulatoe or griffie prefer to call themselves arab or berber and avoid using color terms while light skinned Moroccans may consider them to be black especially in the North but also many light skinned Moroccans with mulatoe features like the king of Morocco call themselves "white" so it's very board

[Optosypoeds]

I mean following countries (ignore Mauritania please):

http://www.afdb.org/uploads/pics/map...orthern_01.gif

Excuse me, but please do not ignore Mauritania, as it has EXTENSIVE historical ties to Morocco (and vice versa). Mauritania is part of the maghreb, and thus, part of north Africa, much like Sudan.

As to how I view my Moroccan side? African.

[SpyRemo]

Excuse me, but please do not ignore Mauritania, as it has EXTENSIVE historical ties to Morocco (and vice versa). Mauritania is part of the maghreb, and thus, part of north Africa, much like Sudan.

As to how I view my Moroccan side? African.

excuse me ties to the Sahara they culturally and ligustically have nothing in common with Northern Moroccans and central Moroccans not even with Casablancans

[JosephEL]

excuse me ties to the Sahara they culturally and ligustically have nothing in common with Northern Moroccans and central Moroccans not even with Casablancans

Northern Mauritanians have extensive ties to southern Moroccans (don't forget that Marrakesh was founded by Sanhaja Berbers). Southern Moroccans even speak a Hilalian-Hassaniya hybridized dialect.

But yes, you're right, northern Moroccans received different influences overall. Southern Morocco is part of Morocco though, thus why I don't really make the distinction.

[warrgazur]

Given my ancestry I see myself just as a North African, I do not even think that the kind of creole Arabic there is in this part of the world has a lot of things in common with the Oriental dialects and we never lived under the Sharia.
Plus, the mountainous and coastal parts of Mediterraean Maghreb do not have a strong Sub-Sahran influence unlike Sahara (I include the whole Libya in Sahara) and Southern Morocco.

[qwerty1]

Any more comments ?

[AromeWahmaron]

Middle Eastern, North African or African are not races.

The Maghreb, especially Morocco and Algeria, is quite tribal. Firstly you have the linguistic division, you're either Arab or Berber. Then you have your tribal affiliation such as Soussi, Jebli, Kabyle, Sahrawi, Chaoui, Rifi, .. or regional identities (mostly in Arabized urban regions) like Tangawi, Casawi, Oujdi, Algerois, Wahrani, ...


But there is definitely a sense of brotherhood across the Maghreb, a shared identity based on history and culture. Even though this brotherhood is not always visible on the political level.

[Bletlemof]

Tuareg/North African (father) > Songhai/West African (mother) > African > black

I don't consider myself Middle Eastern.

Doctoris when will you take the 23andme test?

[t78VPkdO]

Middle Eastern, North African or African are not races.

The Maghreb, especially Morocco and Algeria, is quite tribal. Firstly you have the linguistic division, you're either Arab or Berber. Then you have your tribal affiliation such as Soussi, Jebli, Kabyle, Sahrawi, Chaoui, Rifi, .. or regional identities (mostly in Arabized urban regions) like Tangawi, Casawi, Oujdi, Algerois, Wahrani, ...


But there is definitely a sense of brotherhood across the Maghreb, a shared identity based on history and culture. Even though this brotherhood is not always visible on the political level.

This is soo true, North-Africans don't identify by Colours such as black or white, but by tribe or region.

[stadiaKab]

Doctoris when will you take the 23andme test?

As soon as possible. My package has already arrived at my address, but I'ma have to wait until I get back to the states.

[mealiusarses]

This is soo true, North-Africans don't identify by Colours such as black or white, but by tribe or region.

they do at least in Morocco,Algeria and Egypt
in Morocco for example they use "byad" white "kehal" black "mkhalet" mixed and many others
for example If there's a group of caucasoid looking Moroccans and next to them there's a group of Gnawa they would call one group "byad" and the other "Kouhal" or If there are two Souss Moroccans one looks "white"( in the MENA context )and the other soussi looks black( in the MENA context )then we'd call the caucasoid soussi "byad" and the negroid soussi "kehal" to differentiate those 2 soussi berbers

[patuvammnogoo]

I think her point is that people in north Africa (and Africa as a whole) identify ethnically/regionally. I know for a fact there are color descriptors in Mauritania and Morocco, but there's much more emphasis on regional identification. E.g., soussa are soussi, drawa are draoui, people that live south of Morocco proper consider themselves sahraoui, etc. Or you have urban designations, like Bidaoui, R'bati, Tanjaoui, etc.

[Pippoles]

I think her point is that people in north Africa (and Africa as a whole) identify ethnically/regionally. I know for a fact there are color descriptors in Mauritania and Morocco, but there's much more emphasis on regional identification. E.g., soussa are soussi, drawa are draoui, people that live south of Morocco proper consider themselves sahraoui, etc. Or you have urban designations, like Bidaoui, R'bati, Tanjaoui, etc.

Yes indeed. Moroccans and Algerians(afaik), rarely self-identify through colour/race.

[carinsurancess]

I think her point is that people in north Africa (and Africa as a whole) identify ethnically/regionally. I know for a fact there are color descriptors in Mauritania and Morocco, but there's much more emphasis on regional identification. E.g., soussa are soussi, drawa are draoui, people that live south of Morocco proper consider themselves sahraoui, etc. Or you have urban designations, like Bidaoui, R'bati, Tanjaoui, etc.

Souss identify as souss ethnically but they identify as white souss and black souss because they are racially/phenotypically heterogenous and color in NA is more important than what you think a caucasoid soussi would feel racially more closer to a Rifi than to a black soussi

[dfuzioniag]

Souss identify as souss ethnically but they identify as white souss and black souss because they are racially/phenotypically heterogenous and color in NA is more important than what you think a caucasoid soussi would feel racially more closer to a Rifi than to a black soussi

The "title" of Amazigh in the Souss (noble, freeman) is not reserved to Haratins and descendants of slaves brought there. Alongside you've get some Arab groups which despite their linguistic shift to Tachelh'it have difficulties to assimilate too.

[Hitfaromarf]

they do at least in Morocco,Algeria and Egypt
in Morocco for example they use "byad" white "kehal" black "mkhalet" mixed and many others
for example If there's a group of caucasoid looking Moroccans and next to them there's a group of Gnawa they would call one group "byad" and the other "Kouhal" or If there are two Souss Moroccans one looks "white"( in the MENA context )and the other soussi looks black( in the MENA context )then we'd call the caucasoid soussi "byad" and the negroid soussi "kehal" to differentiate those 2 soussi berbers

What is white in the MeNa context ? Because white means light European to me anything else is non-white to me and I am from ME.

[Mimsykzr]

What is white in the MeNa context ? Because white means light European to me anything else is non-white to me and I am from ME.

in Morocco white means caucasoid it doesn't mean European or a blonde blue eyed person so since berbers don't know about the existence of the caucasoid term they use white so in Morocco anyone who has from pale to olive skin and caucasoid features like a thin nose and non-nappy hair is considered white be it from Norway or Pakistan

for example in North Africa this Pakistani woman would be considered "white" while she wouldn't be considered white in the North western world(and turkey as you said) because she's Pakistani