[Tauntenue]

Its not from a anthropology forum neither lifetime racists meeting, its real-life experience.

I had a talk with a girl from Venezuela couple of days ago and I mentioned to her- in Venezuela you have some American Indian blood, then so you may be partially Indian (she looks quite exotic and I would say metizo, like chavez but she is pretty) I meant it as a compliment,
and she said, to my astonishment "no we dont have indian blood we are spanish, its in Mexico and Puerto Rico they have some but not us". I insisted a bit, partially surprised, partially trying to ensure her that I perceive this blood as something cool and exotic, but she repeatedly said that- none, they have nothing to do with Indians.

A few months ago I talked to one Philipino and he told me that Philippinos are not Asians but Spaniards.It was quite funny, as the guy looks quite typical Philippino.
Both of them dont look like antroforums writers, its just like "streetwise" knowledge, and I started to wonder why they said that. I have to mention that I know lots of foreigners from various parts of the world and never heard that before (however I dont rather ask antro-questions, these were some unique cases).

I wonder what could be the case. I considered that one may be, people from other continents want to feel welcome and at home in Europe and they stress their connections to Europe, which I understand as we all want to feel "part of something" and I would do that (and I do that presently in different way), but what stroke me it was not the admittance of connectiong but exageration. Come on, dont they have mirrors, the girls is visibly Latin-American and the guy is full Asian.

(I could send pic privately if someone wants to see them very much but I dont want to post them here, it would be unfair).

O the other hand I talked to a guy from Bangladesh and I mentioned to him that his language is indo-european and belongs to european family and that he may be closer genetically to me that it seems, and he was quite surprised and seemed to never heard it before.

I thought then about another option- Is it former Spanish colonies which feel this strong ties to Spain then and want to stress this connection?

Third option would be that they believe that it is really the case, that Venezuelans or Philipinnos are descendants of Spaniards not Indians (maybe colonial education was lying about this over centuries and it stayed like this? maybe it was kind of latinisation of them, which remained)and fourth option would be sense of inferiority of local blood ans superiority of spanish blood, which is more widespread than I expected, but I dont really want to believe that.

[Shemker394]

Its not from a anthropology forum neither lifetime racists meeting, its real-life experience.

I had a talk with a girl from Venezuela couple of days ago and I mentioned to her- in Venezuela you have some American Indian blood, then so you may be partially Indian (she looks quite exotic and I would say metizo, like chavez but she is pretty) I meant it as a compliment,
and she said, to my astonishment "no we dont have indian blood we are spanish, its in Mexico and Puerto Rico they have some but not us". I insisted a bit, partially surprised, partially trying to ensure her that I perceive this blood as something cool and exotic, but she repeatedly said that- none, they have nothing to do with Indians.

A few months ago I talked to one Philipino and he told me that Philippinos are not Asians but Spaniards.It was quite funny, as the guy looks quite typical Philippino.
Both of them dont look like antroforums writers, its just like "streetwise" knowledge, and I started to wonder why they said that. I have to mention that I know lots of foreigners from various parts of the world and never heard that before (however I dont rather ask antro-questions, these were some unique cases).

I wonder what could be the case. I considered that one may be, people from other continents want to feel welcome and at home in Europe and they stress their connections to Europe, which I understand as we all want to feel "part of something" and I would do that (and I do that presently in different way), but what stroke me it was not the admittance of connectiong but exageration. Come on, dont they have mirrors, the girls is visibly Latin-American and the guy is full Asian.

(I could send pic privately if someone wants to see them very much but I dont want to post them here, it would be unfair).

O the other hand I talked to a guy from Bangladesh and I mentioned to him that his language is indo-european and belongs to european family and that he may be closer genetically to me that it seems, and he was quite surprised and seemed to never heard it before.

I thought then about another option- Is it former Spanish colonies which feel this strong ties to Spain then and want to stress this connection?

Third option would be that they believe that it is really the case, that Venezuelans or Philipinnos are descendants of Spaniards not Indians (maybe colonial education was lying about this over centuries and it stayed like this? maybe it was kind of latinisation of them, which remained)and fourth option would be sense of inferiority of local blood ans superiority of spanish blood, which is more widespread than I expected, but I dont really want to believe that.

At university I met a really strange Chilean guy once, literally looked pred american indian. He starting blabbing on about indians, without me mentioning anything ( I guess it was an inferiority complex).

Fucking indians this, fucking indians that.... Was quite amusing, considering he didnt look Spanish at all - and made a big deal about stating his Spanish ancestry.

I wonder then if this attitude is quite common in South America, possibly due to discrimination etc... in fact im sure it is to do with that.

The vitriol in his aggressiveness towards indians in particular stood out to me.

[23tommy]

Lol at the pseudo Spaniards.

---------- Post added 2011-07-04 at 14:03 ----------


Long live Mother Spain lol!!!!

[boxcigsnick]

I think it goes both ways. I've seen a lot of agressiveness of latin americans towards their former colonizers, on the internet mostly. The brazilians i've met in person were all nice people.

[Promotiona]

Yeas true, this could be called "antiindianism" too, the girl I talked to wasnt maybe aggresive towards Indians, but it looked like she doesnt want to have anything to do with them, it wasnt "oh we have a bit of indian blood but I personally dont think so" it was a definite no, obviously i never insisted anymore I just nodded pretending that I just "learnt the truth".
The Philipino guy's case was surprisingly pretty similar, with spanish blood as a main actor, he said- not we are different cause we were under spanish occupation and we habe spanish blood just a little bit asian.
Weird it was, considering what I had said, they both did not look Spanish but looked indian/asian.

[padlabtard]

On the one hand latin americans usually exaggerate their european heritage but on the other hand they hate us or at least there's a strong dislike towards us. It's a weird behaviour.

[retrahdggd]

Its not from a anthropology forum neither lifetime racists meeting, its real-life experience.

I had a talk with a girl from Venezuela couple of days ago and I mentioned to her- in Venezuela you have some American Indian blood, then so you may be partially Indian (she looks quite exotic and I would say metizo, like chavez but she is pretty) I meant it as a compliment,
and she said, to my astonishment "no we dont have indian blood we are spanish, its in Mexico and Puerto Rico they have some but not us". I insisted a bit, partially surprised, partially trying to ensure her that I perceive this blood as something cool and exotic, but she repeatedly said that- none, they have nothing to do with Indians.

A few months ago I talked to one Philipino and he told me that Philippinos are not Asians but Spaniards.It was quite funny, as the guy looks quite typical Philippino.
Both of them dont look like antroforums writers, its just like "streetwise" knowledge, and I started to wonder why they said that. I have to mention that I know lots of foreigners from various parts of the world and never heard that before (however I dont rather ask antro-questions, these were some unique cases).

I wonder what could be the case. I considered that one may be, people from other continents want to feel welcome and at home in Europe and they stress their connections to Europe, which I understand as we all want to feel "part of something" and I would do that (and I do that presently in different way), but what stroke me it was not the admittance of connectiong but exageration. Come on, dont they have mirrors, the girls is visibly Latin-American and the guy is full Asian.

(I could send pic privately if someone wants to see them very much but I dont want to post them here, it would be unfair).

O the other hand I talked to a guy from Bangladesh and I mentioned to him that his language is indo-european and belongs to european family and that he may be closer genetically to me that it seems, and he was quite surprised and seemed to never heard it before.

I thought then about another option- Is it former Spanish colonies which feel this strong ties to Spain then and want to stress this connection?

Third option would be that they believe that it is really the case, that Venezuelans or Philipinnos are descendants of Spaniards not Indians (maybe colonial education was lying about this over centuries and it stayed like this? maybe it was kind of latinisation of them, which remained)and fourth option would be sense of inferiority of local blood ans superiority of spanish blood, which is more widespread than I expected, but I dont really want to believe that.

They both come from countries/cultures with former (probably partially current) caste systems, the Bangladeshi guy less so (plus 'darker' Muslims are less likely to care about being european than Christians). I might be wrong though.

[sasaderesada]

Its not from a anthropology forum neither lifetime racists meeting, its real-life experience.

I had a talk with a girl from Venezuela couple of days ago and I mentioned to her- in Venezuela you have some American Indian blood, then so you may be partially Indian (she looks quite exotic and I would say metizo, like chavez but she is pretty) I meant it as a compliment,
and she said, to my astonishment "no we dont have indian blood we are spanish, its in Mexico and Puerto Rico they have some but not us". I insisted a bit, partially surprised, partially trying to ensure her that I perceive this blood as something cool and exotic, but she repeatedly said that- none, they have nothing to do with Indians.

A few months ago I talked to one Philipino and he told me that Philippinos are not Asians but Spaniards.It was quite funny, as the guy looks quite typical Philippino.
Both of them dont look like antroforums writers, its just like "streetwise" knowledge, and I started to wonder why they said that. I have to mention that I know lots of foreigners from various parts of the world and never heard that before (however I dont rather ask antro-questions, these were some unique cases).

I wonder what could be the case. I considered that one may be, people from other continents want to feel welcome and at home in Europe and they stress their connections to Europe, which I understand as we all want to feel "part of something" and I would do that (and I do that presently in different way), but what stroke me it was not the admittance of connectiong but exageration. Come on, dont they have mirrors, the girls is visibly Latin-American and the guy is full Asian.

(I could send pic privately if someone wants to see them very much but I dont want to post them here, it would be unfair).

O the other hand I talked to a guy from Bangladesh and I mentioned to him that his language is indo-european and belongs to european family and that he may be closer genetically to me that it seems, and he was quite surprised and seemed to never heard it before.

I thought then about another option- Is it former Spanish colonies which feel this strong ties to Spain then and want to stress this connection?

Third option would be that they believe that it is really the case, that Venezuelans or Philipinnos are descendants of Spaniards not Indians (maybe colonial education was lying about this over centuries and it stayed like this? maybe it was kind of latinisation of them, which remained)and fourth option would be sense of inferiority of local blood ans superiority of spanish blood, which is more widespread than I expected, but I dont really want to believe that.

It doesn't surprises me at all Latin america is full of those complexed self hating people who looking mestizo they say they're full iberain descendants...bullshit!!!!.

Such people just make a fool to the eyes of others, they are seen as the clowns when they face educated or real euro people who cant be cheated easily.

In México we can see these the two sides of the coin: There are blonde/white people who look full iberian and fancy themselves as Aztec descendants and are haters to spain, and also there are mestizo people who fancy themselves as iberians and are haters to indians and other mestizos....

I guess that only happens here at Latin america due to the colonialist complexes: The most amerindian you look the lower in the social status you were worthy.

However during the S.XX there was this indigenist way of thinking and idealization of the amerindian cultures in Mexico and it became sort of "fashionable" (at least to the eyes of the mexican left wing) to boast about indian heritage. Then suddenly the Aztec culture became the "perfection" the "Shangri-la" that was destroyed by the barbarian invaders of Spain and of course "if that had not happened now Mexico and the mexican people would enjoy of a better way of life being the Aztecs so perfect and advanced Mexico would be such".

In most Lat Am coutries it has happened the opposit: They have tried to hide their amerindian roots under "the carpet" or cooped them up in the closet and they fancy themselves as pure euro descendants.

I have met southamericans that justify ther dark skin tone and their "exotic traits" saying they have some gypsy admix, as one argentinian girl that I know. Her Mom is indomestizo looking and girl says that crap of the gypsys: "Es que somos medio gitanos" It is because we are gypsy admixed.... as if somehow rom blood were better that native... poor fucks!!!!

Such people think they cheat on others but they dont realize they are seen just as selfhaters and they dont cheat people such as arminfrench....

Needless to say that not all the Mexicans are indio or aztec descendants and not all the southamericans are pure euro desendants: All latam countries are, in bigger or lesser degree mixed countries.


Lat am is full with very confused people due to the colonial times.

[gogFloark]

I think it goes both ways. I've seen a lot of agressiveness of latin americans towards their former colonizers, on the internet mostly. The brazilians i've met in person were all nice people.

Most people from Latin America I met were nice indeed, I remember one very short nice girl from guatemala, she looked really like a statist from Mel Gibsons Apocalyptyco, no kidding, I told her that and she was happy about that. She had a good sense of humour anyway, but I cant recall a shadow of shock or denial on her face. Which was really cool

[oranowdenda]

Most people from Latin America I met were nice indeed, I remember one very short nice girl from guatemala, she looked really like a statist from Mel Gibsons Apocalyptyco, no kidding, I told her that and she was happy about that. She had a good sense of humour anyway, but I cant recall a shadow of shock or denial on her face. Which was really cool

Yeah but girls don't count. 95% of girls everywhere are all nice and friendly.

[Cemeuncex]

One more thing, as Armi said its latin-america thing, I think its world-wiede thing less or more, in Europe it happens too, its just enough to see people who want to prove this or that, however its easier in Europe, in extreme case you would have a finn and a spaniard or greek and icelander and they still look similar and in many cases could play this game, (or the same would probably happen in Africa between some similar ethnicies or in Asia between Chinese and Korean lets say)
while when you have asian or amerindian visible admixture in an European, it is just like- you may think "do they think I am that stupid" or"are they that stupid", but its probably some emotional thing stronger thatn rational approach.

[r5YOPDyk]

Most people from Latin America I met were nice indeed, I remember one very short nice girl from guatemala, she looked really like a statist from Mel Gibsons Apocalyptyco, no kidding, I told her that and she was happy about that. She had a good sense of humour anyway, but I cant recall a shadow of shock or denial on her face. Which was really cool

Some of them like it some others dont, the best is to keep your mouth shut about people's heritage so they wouldnt get offended..

There was this mexican mulatto girl working with me, she was the daughter of the famous former boxing champion "Mantequilla" Napoles, of cuban origin who emigrated to mexico and became mexican.

So there was his daugther working with me so once I commented about her being black and she got offended: "Yo no soy negra" "I'm not black" she answered sort of annoyed.... I shut up and just thought that how can she say she isnt black admixed she was obviously black admixed and her father was black!!!...

Anyway that's the way some people are...

[wheettebott]

yeah its lame, why shouldnt you ask about heritage, I mean I know people can get offended, but why should they (in ideal world), its heritage, most people who ask (like I did in all cases or you with the girl) is driven by curiosity or interest, not to prove or laugh off anything, sad.

---------- Post added 2011-07-04 at 19:49 ----------

If its the cast system it may be the case too, as question about blood might be read as suggestion of low social status, but why they think that I have any idea of social classes in Latin America, its a habit probably.

[RobsShow]

That's really interesting, because I have heard that Americans really emphasize their Native American ancestry. It is kind a cool for them to have native blood in them. Maybe for those who live in the South America it is really cool to be of Spanish origin. I don't know, but I think that's really weird.
I think for Europeans it is similar when they have some Jewish ancestry.

[Thydaysuh]

That's really interesting, because I have heard that Americans really emphasize their Native American ancestry. It is kind a cool for them to have native blood in them. Maybe for those who live in the South America it is really cool to be of Spanish origin. I don't know, but I think that's really weird.
I think for Europeans it is similar when they have some Jewish ancestry.

yes this indian-ancestor fashion exists but applies mainly to USA, maybe Canada and Mexico, it must be a more complicated case in Latin America.

[imictiorume]

The Rules of the Subtle Race Game

Moore recalled that Hollywood wanted to make a film about Egyptian President Anwar Sadat. They had cast an African American in the role, only to have to pull the plug on the project when Sadat objected to a black man portraying him. Sadat, being the leader of Egypt, considered himself white, according to Moore. Moore said there are black-looking Arabs and Latin Americans who consider themselves white because they have some distant white ancestry. “The only problem is when they go to New York."

Moore expressed some concern about the implications for race relations in the United States posed by the increasing immigration from Mexico and Latin America. While he clearly regarded the often overt racism of the North as perhaps even more objectionable than the Arab-Spanish form in the South, he saw a particular problem in the general Latin American denial of race as an issue. This has made it socially disreputable to raise demands for reform in Latin America around race issues.

Moore concluded by expressing the hope that these new Latin American immigrants will not import their Arab-Latin American model of race relations, as with it comes a false color blindness. To Moore, the U.S. model of dealing with race, while far from ideal, enables groups to make demands on society, and to be able to work for change.

Intersting point Moore makes about subtle racism in the past in Latin America...

The racial mixing that took place in Latin America that was socially acceptable, Moore said, was only between white males and the black or American Indian females.

According to Moore, the possibility of a black or American Indian man having sex with a white woman would have been destabilizing to the state because the black or American Indian penetrating the female would have been viewed as flipping the established racial hierarchy on its head.

Mixed race children from white fathers and dark mothers were totally accepted into society, according to Moore. In each generation males are expected or permitted to marry females of their own skin color or darker. "The production of a stable intermediary swarthy white type is very important to the Latin-Arab model of race relations. It is so important that the state encourages it." Moore views this as "the sexual enslavement of black women by the conquering white males."

[Prererularl]

yes this indian-ancestor fashion exists but applies mainly to USA, maybe Canada and Mexico, it must be a more complicated case in Latin America.

Americans (especially Whites) have been watching too much Pocahontas. I love how every Indian "ancestor" they had was a Cherokee princess. 200 years ago having Native American blood was as bad as having African ancestry.

[JessePex]

I was arguing with a white american couple the other day they said they were part native american and I said that's the same as being part Mexican and they were somehow insulted and confused.

They believe that being part Native American is not the same as Mexican. Native Americans to them are some great light skinned Asiatic mystical people that are greater and higher up than a Mexican.

It's really odd because they are really not different from Mexicans at all except most are dead so you don't see them every day.

[Ayyfjicg]

That's really interesting, because I have heard that Americans really emphasize their Native American ancestry. It is kind a cool for them to have native blood in them. Maybe for those who live in the South America it is really cool to be of Spanish origin. I don't know, but I think that's really weird.
I think for Europeans it is similar when they have some Jewish ancestry.

Bragging about Spanish ancestry is common here in Brazil, specially for those who are clearly mixed, I think they find themselves more confortable with their european ancestry than with the native or black part..

Most of them are in denial, I've met a very dark woman (but with straight hair and etc..) and she was bragging about her "Portuguese" ancestry, when clearly she doesn't even look like any Portuguese I've met in my life.


Serious stuff..

[legal-advicer]

Bragging about Spanish ancestry is common here in Brazil, specially for those who are clearly mixed, I think they find themselves more confortable with their european ancestry than with the native or black part..

Most of them are in denial, I've met a very dark woman (but with straight hair and etc..) and she was bragging about her "Portuguese" ancestry, when clearly she doesn't even look like any Portuguese I've met in my life.


Serious stuff..

I thought that Brazilians are those who feel really comfortable with their mixed heritages.