[Noxassope]

I don't see why this phenom on should be limited to us, I see the same light skin dark skin dichotomy among American whites. One of my best friends from High school would go to great lengths to darken her skin. She was relatively pale, she didn't tan from being exposed to the sun, she would actually burn quite badly. Since she could not tan through the means of sun exposure she decided to endure those fake spray tans that caused her skin to become uncomfortably itchy. Despite the misery brought about by the fake tan it was a welcome payment in order to gain that "golden wheat" tan. I can only assume this is a common mindset, as most of the white women and many of the white men I know elect to get fake tans on regular basis.

It's not only limited to blacks. Indians also have an issue with skin color. Skin bleaching/lighting commercials are quite common in India and Bollywood is almost exclusively light-skin Indians.

Fair and Lovely:



Fair and Handsome:

[Bemapayople]

It's not only limited to blacks. Indians also have an issue with skin color. Skin bleaching/lighting commercials are quite common in India and Bollywood is almost exclusively light-skin Indians.

Fair and Lovely:



Fair and Handsome:

I've seen those commercials before. It's really sad. My East Indian friend has told me about skin color issues in the Indian community.

[vNQmO2BF]

Right, ironically blacks are the biggest pushers of the one drop rule today and they follow it even more than the bible itself. (despite the odr having no validity whatsoever)

I think the reason why African Americans push the one-drop rule on mixed race individuals because they want them to acknowledge it. American history has shown that bi-racials, tri-racials, etc. who have some African ancestry sometimes deny their African mix and don't claim it but are eager to claim their other racial mixture(s). So, it's kinda of a way to force them to acknowledge that their half, quarter, etc. black/African side like they acknowledge the other races/ethnicities their mixed with.

[kvitacencia]

It is. Don't matter if you half Irish,Chinese,Russian. If you mixed with Black...you Black,lol.

It seems an old-school conception.

I doubt that many African Americans would consider people like Mariah Carey a "sistah" or Vin Dielsel a "brotha", even though both of them have Black admixture.

Physical apperance also plays a lot in American society. While Mulattoes like Alicia Keys or Halley Berry are considered "black" because they are dark, lighter Mulattoes like Mariah Carey or Vin Diesel are often not seem as "black"

[tabcdyop]

Well, African Americans are generally called "black" or "Negroes" by the Swedes, while like some Middle Eastern people and Mestizas/Castizas (mainly Chileans) tend to call them "Mulattoes".

[Phouepou]

Well, African Americans are generally called "black" or "Negroes" by the Swedes, while like some Middle Eastern people and Mestizas/Castizas (mainly Chileans) tend to call them "Mulattoes".

Middle Eastern don't have the equivalent of mulattoe they call all black or very visibly black admixed people slaves/blacks

[flueftArete]

Middle Eastern don't have the equivalent of mulattoe they call all black or very visibly black admixed people slaves/blacks

That might be the case for those who live in the Middle East. I rather meant the Middle Eastern immigrants here who are into African American hiphop/ghetto culture.

[alecaf]

I think the reason why African Americans push the one-drop rule on mixed race individuals because they want them to acknowledge it. American history has shown that bi-racials, tri-racials, etc. who have some African ancestry sometimes deny their African mix and don't claim it but are eager to claim their other racial mixture(s). So, it's kinda of a way to force them to acknowledge that their half, quarter, etc. black/African side like they acknowledge the other races/ethnicities their mixed with.

The African American identity, its ethnogenesis if you will, evolved in probably one of the most hyper-racially conscious societies of the New World (USA). The American black racial concept was constructed in this cultural climate of One Droppism/hypo-descent. There was no escape from it, your lot in life was determined by your African ancestry. I don't doubt that anyone in those times that could pass as white would try to do so by moving away and hiding their past.
However, the US is long past the civil war era, segregation, jim crow, etc. An American who is the offspring of one white American and one Afram parent saying they're bi-racial in the US today is essentially acknowledging both ancestries.

[ceagstuntee]

Or predominantly Whites who have SSA admixture unless it's fuckin obvious and most of the time they have to be a 50/50 Mulatto. I've noticed a lot of Whites can detect Euro admixture in Blacks, but seem to mistaken Whites who have SSA admixture for being exotic Euro or Southern European and their exotic looks are justified and there is always a huge debate, but yet there seems to be no issue immediately saying a pred Black individual has White admixture...even if they look fully African. And Blacks who do see Black admixture in pred Euro individuals are made out to be crazy or dumb.

I've met some whites who thought Paula Patton was Italian or they just think she's a tanned fully White woman. And idk I was like they really can't tell she's Mulatta? That's just to use an example. I'm not saying all Whites can't tell, but in my daily life I see stuff like this. And I have had friends who were really light Mulattoes and Blacks could still tell they were Mulattoes, but a lot of the Whites thought they were White.

Paula Patton:http://www.daemonstv.com/wp-content/...ula-patton.jpg
I don't see how people would think she's 100 percent Euro...

I think you write this in too much of an American context. Many other places generally have F1 mixes as "Mulattoes", rather than complicated multi-generational mixes like in the US. It's simply because they don't really have multi generational mixes, only recent mixes. There's also an opposite mechanism where I live, compared to the US one - the resulting mulatto children have a tendency to marry into the majority white group, and after a few generations they will have become white. There's no segregation at all, though maybe now there is, but that's because, in Europe, there are a lot of new African immigrants, but previously it was different.

If mulatto means a direct mix between a "fully white" and a "fully Black", then it becomes meaningless to talk about mulattoes in America, since they sometime aren't F1 mulattoes, but just mixed people. When a mixed person procreate with a purely white person (if they even are that?) then the mixed parent doesn't become unmixed just because that person has a child. The child will therefore be more white than black, and due to recombination of genes, they could randomly end up as overwhelmingly white looking, in comparison with their black parent.

If mulatto just means a mixed white/black, no matter which percentage, then a large part of Aframs and also some whites are also mulattoes.

I consider mulattoes F1 mixes only. All other mixes are just that, mixes. Some people even think mulatto is a slur, I've heard.

Ps. And that woman you posted? She would definitely not be thought of as white or European around here.
PPS. I looked at some other pictures, and in the one you posted she looks more black that the others, but she does have an ambiguous look, sometimes she does look like a "tanned European" in some of her pictures. In some pictures she reminds me of JLo, yet in some others I see a vague similarity with Beyoncé.

[nryFBa9i]

As far as I can tell, the popularity of being "light-skinned" in the Afram community went out in the 1980's. It was a much bigger deal back then than it is today.

You will still find, among what I would call the old-school elite of Aframs, that a lot of them are light-skinned, "high yellow", or what have you.

Still these people were not looking to deny their "blackness" but more taking advantage of being "black" but looking "white". So they could become politicians and power brokers, have support among blacks, but interact more easily with white politicians and power brokers.

I think that, after the civil rights era, they probably discontinued their practice of "marrying light" i.e. other mulattoes to maintain their social status. So, in many of these families, the newer generations are darker than the older ones.

Light-skinned folks moving away, changing their identity, and passing as Italian etc. is a different issue. I'm sure it has happened quite a bit, for the reasons stated.

Anyway, back to the original topic, no I don't think I have a particular problem detecting light-skinned mulattoes. I could tell Vin Diesel and Mariah Carey had some SSA in them just from looking. I've seen Harold Ford Jr. in person, who is whiter than me with a blonde barbie wife, and I can spot him as "black". It gets more confusing for me when you mix something else in, like Native or Asian.

[Teprophopay]

Yeah it's not the biggest issue we have, but is still considered to be one of "our social issues." But skin color can be brought up from time to time and yes there are some cray cray Afram families who do that shit....won't let their kids marry darker skinned and there can still be an obsession with being lighter skinned.

Some of my family members refuse to be with darker skinned Aframs because they don't want thier babies to be too dark. I see this mostly with the darker skinned Aframs tho, the lighter skinned ones don't really care about skin color selection in their mates.

[u2ZQGC6b]

Some of my family members refuse to be with darker skinned Aframs because they don't want thier babies to be too dark. I see this mostly with the darker skinned Aframs tho, the lighter skinned ones don't really care about skin color selection in their mates.

And I have met lighterskinned women who will only date darker complected men.

[KirillAristov]

I think the reason why African Americans push the one-drop rule on mixed race individuals because they want them to acknowledge it. American history has shown that bi-racials, tri-racials, etc. who have some African ancestry sometimes deny their African mix and don't claim it but are eager to claim their other racial mixture(s). So, it's kinda of a way to force them to acknowledge that their half, quarter, etc. black/African side like they acknowledge the other races/ethnicities their mixed with.

I understand what you are saying, but what is peculiar is that those who embrace the ODR are embracing an idea created by white racists.

[Anamehuskeene]

I understand what you are saying, but what is peculiar is that those who embrace the ODR are embracing an idea created by white racists.

They are, but I don't think they care. It's like saying the N-word, created and used by white racists, yet African Americans still use it.

[Hetgvwic]

I think the reason why African Americans push the one-drop rule on mixed race individuals because they want them to acknowledge it. American history has shown that bi-racials, tri-racials, etc. who have some African ancestry sometimes deny their African mix and don't claim it but are eager to claim their other racial mixture(s). So, it's kinda of a way to force them to acknowledge that their half, quarter, etc. black/African side like they acknowledge the other races/ethnicities their mixed with.

Do you feel that this is OK? What's your opinion on blacks that force this label upon mixed race individuals who we all know many times are not accepted by either blacks or whites. What's wrong with just saying your mixed race and not mentioning your part black/part white/part indian etc?

I suppose it just doesn't sit well with me. People should identify with what they feel comfortable with. It isn't always about distancing oneself from the black community. Many times mixed race individuals truly feel in-between. When this is the case, they should not be pressured to pick a side. They are what they are. This is why Tiger Woods went out of his way to create his own race, cablanasian (or whatever)

Phenotype will determine this anyway. If someone looks majority black then if they claim to be mixed, they will look foolish.

[ChyFDjfed]

Do you feel that this is OK? What's your opinion on blacks that force this label upon mixed race individuals who we all know many times are not accepted by either blacks or whites. What's wrong with just saying your mixed race and not mentioning your part black/part white/part indian etc?

I suppose it just doesn't sit well with me. People should identify with what they feel comfortable with. It isn't always about distancing oneself from the black community. Many times mixed race individuals truly feel in-between. When this is the case, they should not be pressured to pick a side. They are what they are. This is why Tiger Woods went out of his way to create his own race, cablanasian (or whatever)

Phenotype will determine this anyway. If someone looks majority black then if they claim to be mixed, they will look foolish.

No, I don't think it's okay. No one has the right to label others or tell others what they should identify as. It's the individual's decision. I also don't think that there is anything wrong with saying your mixed race, but people are curious, so they will ask what their racial mixture is.

I have a nephew and nieces who are mixed race (Ethiopian/Indian) and when I go out with them, to the park, etc., people ask about their ancestry. I always say their half Ethiopian and Indian and they say the same if they are directly asked. It's important to my family and I that they identify as both because it shows pride in their heritage. If they chose to only identify as one race or neither, it's their decision. I would be a little upset by it, but I would eventually accept it.

In my previous post, I was trying to explain why some AAs might still use the ODR, it doesn't mean I agree with it .

[AssinHT]

My mother, both my grandmothers and most of my aunts are lightskinned, there exists no tension or anything of the sort, musing of skin tone rarely come up unless someone is being described or if "true" lineages are being disputed . Also prohibitions of marriage based on skin tone are unheard of and a ludicrous thing to think of . I can only see crazy people ascribing to such a concept among my people. The only time there is true "tension" is when the media is involved. You will however see people with preferences for certain skin tones when it comes to mating though, but even then its not that big of a deal.

I have to agree here, this issue isn't as big as people make it out to be. Yeah sure, there are some ignorant mofos out there that act that way, but seriously, the whole skin color issue is largely mute, there is a much greater awareness today that wasn't present in the old, old days. The media are the ones who make skin color a big deal and seems to want to keep the whole dark vs light skin thing going.

---------- Post added 2011-07-14 at 22:53 ----------

Right, ironically blacks are the biggest pushers of the one drop rule today and they follow it even more than the bible itself. (despite the odr having no validity whatsoever)

Ironically you are wrong, i hate explaining this one drop crap but I will do it again, the ODR was created to keep "white looking people" of African ancestry from passing as white, that is, people like Walter White, from passing as white and enjoying the same benefits and rights as whites. If you looked to have any visible African ancestry you were black, period. When all those different mixes of people mate with one another you see different gradations of looks in Aframs, its not unusual to have two siblings from the same family look completely different in facial features and skin tones, some can even look to be so called "mulatto," so when the typical Afram sees a "mulatto" who looks to have visible African ancestry of course we're going to say that person is black, that's not forcing any one drop rule, plus most mulattoes self identify as black, so stop it with the exaggerations.

---------- Post added 2011-07-14 at 22:58 ----------

Do you feel that this is OK? What's your opinion on blacks that force this label upon mixed race individuals who we all know many times are not accepted by either blacks or whites. What's wrong with just saying your mixed race and not mentioning your part black/part white/part indian etc?

I suppose it just doesn't sit well with me. People should identify with what they feel comfortable with. It isn't always about distancing oneself from the black community. Many times mixed race individuals truly feel in-between. When this is the case, they should not be pressured to pick a side. They are what they are. This is why Tiger Woods went out of his way to create his own race, cablanasian (or whatever)

Phenotype will determine this anyway. If someone looks majority black then if they claim to be mixed, they will look foolish.

What's black in America was something that whites forced upon people of color, mostly through discrimination and it became what it is today, nobody is forced to be anything, those of mixed race who don't identify as black aren't regarded as black by the black community, its an exaggeration that Aframs are forcing labels onto people when we are not. The biggest forcer of labels is the US government, all Middle Easterners and North Africans, regardless of what they look like are forced to be white, the same with Latinos when the DOJ do their crime stats.

[grudabor]

No, I don't think it's okay. No one has the right to label others or tell others what they should identify as. It's the individual's decision. I also don't think that there is anything wrong with saying your mixed race, but people are curious, so they will ask what their racial mixture is.

I have a nephew and nieces who are mixed race (Ethiopian/Indian) and when I go out with them, to the park, etc., people ask about their ancestry. I always say their half Ethiopian and Indian and they say the same if they are directly asked. It's important to my family and I that they identify as both because it shows pride in their heritage. If they chose to only identify as one race or neither, it's their decision. I would be a little upset by it, but I would eventually accept it.

In my previous post, I was trying to explain why some AAs might still use the ODR, it doesn't mean I agree with it .

So what your saying is that an AFRAM would describe your nieces and nephew as black if asked. I think they would be described the same way you do them. Plus those are nationalities so two different things. I think ODR is within the AFram community and largely based on ethnicity and race.

[addisonnicogel]

Or predominantly Whites who have SSA admixture unless it's fuckin obvious and most of the time they have to be a 50/50 Mulatto. I've noticed a lot of Whites can detect Euro admixture in Blacks, but seem to mistaken Whites who have SSA admixture for being exotic Euro or Southern European and their exotic looks are justified and there is always a huge debate, but yet there seems to be no issue immediately saying a pred Black individual has White admixture...even if they look fully African. And Blacks who do see Black admixture in pred Euro individuals are made out to be crazy or dumb.

I've met some whites who thought Paula Patton was Italian or they just think she's a tanned fully White woman. And idk I was like they really can't tell she's Mulatta? That's just to use an example. I'm not saying all Whites can't tell, but in my daily life I see stuff like this. And I have had friends who were really light Mulattoes and Blacks could still tell they were Mulattoes, but a lot of the Whites thought they were White.

Paula Patton:http://www.daemonstv.com/wp-content/...ula-patton.jpg
I don't see how people would think she's 100 percent Euro...

you might be right

But I also think that you as an individual (as well as one or two individuals) sometimes exagerate certain features as SSA when they just reflect the wide variety of features that some people have.

It's nothing personal, and I don't care, but I do sometimes see certain posters either 1) Overdoing the SSA % 2) Or automatically seeing one or two unconnected ambiguous looking features in certain people as SSA.

I don't care tbh, but I'm just giving you my opinion. Do as you may.

[Filling25]

So what your saying is that an AFRAM would describe your nieces and nephew as black if asked. I think they would be described the same way you do them. Plus those are nationalities so two different things. I think ODR is within the AFram community and largely based on ethnicity and race.

Um, no I wasn't saying that and I wasn't implying it either. I'm really confused on how you came up with that by my reply.

It's the individual's decision. I also don't think that there is anything wrong with saying your mixed race, but people are curious, so they will ask what their racial mixture is. I used my nieces and nephew as an example to clarify my thoughts (above) on the subject and in answering your questions about not mentioning that your part black, white, etc.I never said that AAs or other races identified them as black or Indian, rather that they were curious and wanted to know their ancestry. It doesn't matter to me what African Americans or other races/ethnicities identify my nieces and nephew as, what matters to me as how they identify themselves.

I do agree though that ODR does mainly apply to the African American community. Other Ethiopians view my nephew and nieces as being Ethiopian and Indian and I would hope that others also did.

Sorry for using nationalities instead of races, Ethiopians/Horners tend to do that. It's weird to me to say that their Black and Asian lol. I've grown up thinking of people's identities as their nationalities and ethnicities rather then their race.