[blogforloversxx]

What they got right is that the True Finns support base is very masculine. It is markedly party of men.

Yeah, this is where brings lack of attractive males in party. Bring Alexander Stubb to "True Finns", and you will see that popularity of party will increase doublefold, because more votes from females would come

Well, but some sayings of politicians from party weren't exactly attractive for many women, like Timo Soini's anti-abortion opinions etc. I think that most women in Finland would be against his thoughts. And party in general sounds really masculinist.

[Xewksghy]

Leading German politicians (at least Angela Merkel) are not as stubborn as their swedish counterparts to refuse using "xenophobic" way of thinking, so germany is not as much in the need for it.

Because they're a bunch of hypocritical cowards, mostly the Moderates, it cause behind the scenes they behave the same as SD or worse. I prefer open racists than those little snakes that exist in sweden..

But do you seriously think that the established elites; media, political and financial one would, considering that Sweden is an extremely export dependant economy, support and express publicly ideas to anything that could dare threat their international status? hell no!

Well, but some sayings of politicians from party weren't exactly attractive for many women, like Timo Soini's anti-abortion opinions etc. I think that most women in Finland would be against his thoughts. And party in general sounds really masculinist.

Lfmao, talibanic Finns! So all of you, young liberal sexy finnish women, may move to Sweden! We are waiting for you with open arms.

[griddle]

True Finns gained votes mainly from working class men and people from the countryside, unempleyed people who's been "disappointed" and "left behind" by the Social Democrats. Classical populist voters in other word.

I spoke to my fiancee this weekend about the finnish election and she said she hasn't any friend in finland voting for True Finns (and least not who says it open, naming the party you vote is taboo but people talks about politics in election time). Her friends are young women from the capital region.
Dear friends, phew.

True Finns did not get votes from the mentioned groups, but you need a wide range of candidates and voters from working class to doctors to get 20% result. They got candidates evenly from all districts to the Parliament, all over Finland.

20% of Finnish voters are not 'low-income and education young men'.

Have you not ever thought, that everything in the news is not true.

Some sense please.

---------- Post added 2011-04-19 at 17:37 ----------

Originally Posted by Evi
Well, but some sayings of politicians from party weren't exactly attractive for many women, like Timo Soini's anti-abortion opinions etc. I think that most women in Finland would be against his thoughts. And party in general sounds really masculinist.
Evi, let's keep religion and politics apart, shall we.

Timo Soini is a Catholic, the party True Finns does not share nobody's personal religious beliefs
or restrict abortion rights in Finland.

[iuopyra]

I think it's always blown out of proportion in terms of elections. A lot of people have, and always have had, tacit sympathy for groups such as the BNP, National Front and their foreign equivalents, but for a number of reasons that sympathy or covert support rarely translates into sustained electoral progress for these parties. Politics is geneally cyclical, so far right groups may gain votes one year and lose them the next year, if support for far right groups grows substantially over the next decade, as in 3 or 4 per cent growth per annum compounded, so what? The BNP, which is by no means the smallest far right group in Europe, polls around 3-5% of the vote nationally in a parliamentary election, if they grow at 5% every year for the next ten years 90% of voters will still not be voting for them.

Centrist parties will beef up their immigration policy to attract fence sitters who may be lulled by media savvy far rightist groups, but they will only go so far and generally the fence sitters will meet them half way (i.e. in order to pull the average BNP voter away from the BNP the Conservative Party would not need to replicate BNP policy, just make a gesture such as advocating a burka ban).

Bottom line, until they're starving people would rather not vote for 'fascists'. They have been conditioned to be this way and that is the greatest defence against the rise of the far right.

[parishilton]

Because they're a bunch of hypocritical cowards, mostly the Moderates, it cause behind the scenes they behave the same as SD or worse. I prefer open racists than those little snakes that exist in sweden..

But do you seriously think that the established elites; media, political and financial one would, considering that Sweden is an extremely export dependant economy, support and express publicly ideas to anything that could dare threat their international status? hell no!

Balder that bloke is not a good representative because he is on grass-root level (local moderates do express themselves somewhat 'racist' sometimes). Keep in mind that many of the current politicians of Swedendemocrats have been in other (non-populist) parties before, particulary moderates and christian democrats, but also ex-social democrat members (I can name some Balkan-born workers who've shifted membership from social dems to SD as well). The mainstream parties bleeds both members and supportes to SD.

Denmark is export dependant too, and more so dependant of competence, and because of the reputation of being inbred racists the Danes have got, they aren't attractive to skilled persons and students from Southern European and Non-Euro countries either, who have many other choices to go too.

[AlekseyZubkov]

Balder that bloke is not a good representative because he is on grass-root level (local moderates do express themselves somewhat 'racist' sometimes).

This sounds a lot like Vlaams Belang. They had a number of intelligent people at the top, master tacticians, but at the local level it was mostly idiotic, low-brow mouth-breathers. This problem, of course, only got worse as they grew and expanded.

[Lenny Hensley]

I think it's always blown out of proportion in terms of elections. A lot of people have, and always have had, tacit sympathy for groups such as the BNP, National Front and their foreign equivalents, but for a number of reasons that sympathy or covert support rarely translates into sustained electoral progress for these parties. Politics is geneally cyclical, so far right groups may gain votes one year and lose them the next year, if support for far right groups grows substantially over the next decade, as in 3 or 4 per cent growth per annum compounded, so what? The BNP, which is by no means the smallest far right group in Europe, polls around 3-5% of the vote nationally in a parliamentary election, if they grow at 5% every year for the next ten years 90% of voters will still not be voting for them.

Centrist parties will beef up their immigration policy to attract fence sitters who may be lulled by media savvy far rightist groups, but they will only go so far and generally the fence sitters will meet them half way (i.e. in order to pull the average BNP voter away from the BNP the Conservative Party would not need to replicate BNP policy, just make a gesture such as advocating a burka ban).

Bottom line, until they're starving people would rather not vote for 'fascists'. They have been conditioned to be this way and that is the greatest defence against the rise of the far right.

Really? How, and if so, why are you not a BNP voter if it would be shoving a finger up at the establishment who conditioned you?

This sort of 'conditioned not to vote for fascists' talk is really usually found in the far-right itself. It's the same as the guy who is a loser blaming the world for his problems.

---------- Post added 2011-04-19 at 18:47 ----------

This sounds a lot like Vlaams Belang. They had a number of intelligent people at the top, master tacticians, but at the local level it was mostly idiotic, low-brow mouth-breathers. This problem, of course, only got worse as they grew and expanded.

Stupid principles attract stupid people. Of course, by definition most voters (and the populace in general) are stupid, and these sort of parties aim at attracting such people, especially when they are scared.

[CaseyFan]

Moderate nationalism and Christian morale are the way!

[RerRibreLok]

Moderate nationalism and Christian morale are the way!

When I was in Bulgaria I noticed how modern that nation was, it's not like a retarded post-Soviet country like some members here can think.

In Bulgaria you don't see women in taliban dresses like in all over London for instance.

[vansVoish]

Janos, let them live in ignorance. Bulgaria will be the leading nation of the Balkans in a decade.

[trilochana.nejman]

I personally think this is a good thing. The far-left took over for too long and trampled over their culture. I don't advocate far-right violence or racism, but this far-right rise is due to trends over the past 60 years. You go to this extreme, there will be racism and violence.

Personally, I think we should do the same to neocons in North America, as they have done largely the same. The bad thing is, over here, people are sick of neocons but instead are leaning towards the style of democratic socialism that has plagued Europe for so many years, which is just as bad.

[peakyesno]

In times of crises people tend to lean towards the left seeking social security. But over the past few years we observed exactly the opposite. Moderate right parties will continue to dominate European politics. The easternmore you go, the more nationalist.

[asSexate]

Nationalism isn't just rising in Europe. Recently in Quebec, a hardline nationalist took the reigns of a provincial political party by a vote of 93%. Their election isn't until a couple years, though, and if the global economy recovers by then, I doubt there will be as much hard-line support.

[lodsemelf]

I was referring to Europe in particular because of the thread's title. Nationalism taking hold of Quebec makes perfect sense to me. If I were a 'mainstream' Canadian I would love to see them go.

[payporanymn]

Moderate nationalism and Christian morale are the way!

Which party would you say best describes moderate nationalism and christian (I think what you mean is morals)?

[Alina20100]

Both Western Europe and Eastern are becomic populist.
In most countries of EE after communism collapsed a new liberalism has been introduced. The same recepit of Chicago boys which they used in South America which brought all leftists winning there.
Inequalities and social injustice is in EE as big as nowhere else in Western Europe.

Things which Conservatists try to indroduce in the UK now or others in other European countries, the public perceives them as outrageous, in EE people had even worse.

I find it really ridicolous, when the communism collapsed, the people of the former Soviet Bloc lived by the hope that in 20-30 years they are going to catch up with the Western Europe. In fact wha is happening is the opposite, Western Europe is collapsing and in fact EE and WE very soon will be in fact on the same level, but because of the movement in opposite direction than expected.

[Rategbee]

I was referring to Europe in particular because of the thread's title. Nationalism taking hold of Quebec makes perfect sense to me. If I were a 'mainstream' Canadian I would love to see them go.

Well Quebec is considered the most European city outside of Europe, at least it's in architecture... if independent would them joint to EU?

[Vulkanevsel]

i mean the constant swing from one extreme to the other, from left to right and back again etc...we need to find more balance as to avoid falling in the utopian pit of naive dreaming..

Ah yes, indeed.

a better alternative would be a Nordic union and similar unions for various parts of Europe with similar history.. but it might not work so..

I think it could certainly work better than the current continental unions which so many nations are involved in.

with the rise of China and India, Europe needs to speak with one voice, as otherwise we can easily be undermined as European powers have done with others for the last centuries (divide and conquered), this is mainly in terms of economics, military and general foreign policies.. even Chinese politicians has said the things ive said about Europe.. http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/opinion...t_12200024.htm

Or, the world could aim for de-globalization and return to the homeostasis induced by decentralized city states that was present during the time of pre-colonialism.


I agree that China poses a threat economically, militarily, and by other means, but why does Europe have to form a political union to cope with the situation? Why not a simple economic, military (or both) union (or even just a loose agreement) instead? Does not the person who gives up his liberty for freedom (be it real or illusionary) neither deserve nor receive either?

i dont mind living in a socialist country as i am a socialist myself, i just get worried when policies get too much dominated by socialism, they get very naive, especially with regards to immigration and foreign policies..

You should be worried about the size of the socialist nation, rather than how extreme the policies are. Socialism, communism, and similar things are the "ideal" form of government in theory, but in practice they have been shown to be brought down by the human element, and one of the main factors of this is the sheer size of the population to which resources must be allocated.

Also, in any form of government, when the population is large it gets harder to appease everyone, as each person has their own interests. Size meaning both population as a whole, and geographic area. Nations with large geographic areas tend to have many distinct racial, ethnic, and cultural groups which all have different (and often conflicting) agendas.

[Breevereurl]

Which party would you say best describes moderate nationalism and christian (I think what you mean is morals)?

I'm not really familiar with nationalist parties across Europe, but I would imagine ones from Orthodox countries, and Italy, to provide the best examples.

Well Quebec is considered the most European city outside of Europe, at least it's in architecture... if independent would them joint to EU?

Wouldn't that be Boston?

[wasssallx]

I'm not really familiar with nationalist parties across Europe, but I would imagine ones from Orthodox countries, and Italy, to provide the best examples.


Wouldn't that be Boston?

Boston is similar to Europe because of it's liberal character, I don't know about the architecture.

---------- Post added 2011-04-20 at 21:31 ----------

Janos, let them live in ignorance. Bulgaria will be the leading nation of the Balkans in a decade.

What about Romania?